Below the Radar Transcript
Episode 68: Black Youth in Community Organizing — with Ayaan Ismaciil and Natasha Mhuriro
Speakers: Melissa Roach, Jackie Obungah, Natasha Mhuriro, Ayaan Ismaciil
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Melissa Roach 0:05
Hello listeners. I'm Melissa Roach and you're listening to Below the Radar, a knowledge democracy podcast. Below the Radar is created by SFU's Vancity Office of Community Engagement and is recorded on the territories of the Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh peoples. On this episode of Below the Radar, our office's current Co Op student, Jackie Obungah, speaks with Natasha Mhuriro and Ayaan Ismaciil. Natasha and Ayaan are both community organizers, who are currently part of organizing the Black in BC Mutual Aid Fund. They join us today to discuss community organizing efforts during the pandemic, centering black youth and their work, and the importance of the continued solidarity between Indigenous and black communities. We hope you enjoy.
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Jackie Obungah 0:53
Welcome everyone to this episode of Below the Radar. My name is Jackie Obungah and I'll be hosting this conversation I have with me here Ayaan and Natasha, and I welcome them to introduce themselves. Let's start with you Natasha, tell us a bit about yourself.
Natasha Mhuriro 1:08
Thank you, Jackie. My name is Natasha Mhuriro. I am an international student from Zimbabwe. I'm currently studying at SFU. I am in my fourth year and last semester. I am majoring in Political Science and minoring in Business Administration as well. I am invested in community organizing and creating spaces that center the voices and leadership of black youth, especially self identified black women. And yeah, that's me in a nutshell.
Jackie Obungah 1:44
Thank you so much for that. Ayaan, let's hear a bit about you.
Ayaan Ismaciil 1:48
Hi, my name is Ayaan. I also go to SFU. I'm in my fourth year as well. I'm majoring in International Studies and minoring in Sociology. I'm also, yeah, invested in community organizing and just creating spaces specifically for black and Indigenous youth, and just having critical conversations and working on capacity building and, and meaningful youth engagement with organizations and institutions and all of that. And so yeah, I co organized alongside Natasha with the Black in BC Mutual Aid Fund, alongside other nine individuals. And so yeah, that's, that's a nutshell of what we do.
Jackie Obungah 2:29
That's great. And actually, let's just transition directly into the mutual aid fund, because I think that's a really interesting initiative that you both of you are part of, let's talk a bit about how that came about, who's part of it, and specifically the role of, let's say, youth and organizing within the community, and especially bringing together resources that help and support black youth? I don't know which one of you wants to start, maybe Natasha for this one?
Natasha Mhuriro 2:55
Yeah, sure. I think just thinking about your question, and this whole pandemic, I just want to start off by saying that, you know, an important truth that has been highlighted through the COVID 19 pandemic, is how our well being is directly tied to those around us, especially our most vulnerable communities. And with this pandemic, I've just noticed that it continues to change the ways we look at survival. And we know that many of us need access to help and we honestly can't wait for governmental forms of aid. So in terms of how the Black in BC Mutual Aid Fund came up, we're basically a collective of independent black organizers, who came together to offer help and to protect our community and to ensure that we reach as many black folks in BC as possible. So that's basically how we came together in organizing the Black in BC Mutual Aid Fund.
Jackie Obungah 3:58
Yeah, I'm just opening it up to Ayaan to add a bit more about that as well.
Ayaan Ismaciil 4:04
Yeah, I think that Natasha covered it well. What you're offering is $150, which is like really low barrier. Folks just have to fill a quick application for self identified folks, black folks. And so there's no expectation that, you know, we expect funds to be repaid or like, you know, recipients to report back to us on how they spend their money. It's really autonomous in how folks meet their needs that they wish to meet. And so, yeah, other than that, yeah.
Jackie Obungah 4:36
Yeah that's incredible. And let's talk a bit specifically about like the concept of mutual aid, and how important that is strengthening communities. Specifically mutual aids that are like youth led and youth organized. And in a city like Vancouver, you know, we have quite a small population of the Black community here. The concept of mutual aid is so fantastic. Talk to us, Ayaan specifically a bit about why a mutual aid fund and like why mutual aid is a means of community support?
Ayaan Ismaciil 5:02
Yeah, I mean, I come from an African community and like a homestead. And so mutual aid is like how we exist and how we've always functioned. And so it's always about, like, I remember growing up, you know, if like we run short of, let's say, salt, or a little bit of sugar you, you ask for the next neighbor, and then the next time they need something, and like, that's how we exchanged stuff, or like, you know, community supported each other on that. And so I really think it's a really great idea, especially with the pandemic, and like, you know, black folks experience a lot of discrimination and anti black racism generally, before the pandemic. And so it's just on top of that. And so I think the fact that the fund is led by black folks is also really critical around like, we know the needs of folks in our communities who need these funds, who, you know, cannot wait, as Natasha said, for government support, but who knows when it comes, especially when we were starting off? So yeah, I think mutual aid is really like, you know, critical and very important in how especially black communities function in this specific case. I know other communities also practice mutual aid. But yeah, I think it's a really important, not concept, but like really, in practice being able to support folks and not expecting, you know, like, for example, grants or things we apply to there's, always oh report on these, where did you put that budget and all of that, it's really accessible. And for folks, we've really tried to make it as accessible as we can, especially with folks who don't have access to laptops or like computers, where they can submit the application, we've tried to go to the community. And so we recently distributed to about 20 people, I believe, at a certain community space where folks just came in, we helped them fill in the application, and then they just received funds. And that's how we moved on. So yeah.
Jackie Obungah 7:04
That's incredible that you talk about how low barrier, the accessibility for the mutual aid fund is, as all mutual aid funds should be, in fact, especially you talked a bit about being an international student, and how specifically forms of government support or many forms of support are available in community or through government are not accessible for international students. Tell us a bit about the importance of having a mutual aid fund that supports international students, specifically black international students, students with migrant experience, and how that's been an important part of the mutual aid.
Natasha Mhuriro 7:38
Yes, sure. Honestly, I'm really grateful for being a part of the Black in BC Mutual Aid Fund and as an international student, I'd say that I've really been sustained by this mutual aid support fund and community care as well. And as an international student, there are a lot of barriers in terms of like accessing governmental forms of aid. I remember when the government announced the CERB I couldn't apply for that. And I couldn't access that as well, as well as the other, I believe, it's the CRB fund that was also announced by the government, I also wasn't able to access that as well. So I'm truly grateful for being able to access mutual support and community care. It has really sustained me throughout this pandemic. And also going back to why this mutual aid fund was created in the first place. I think it was, you know, created to address how we are exposed to the vulnerabilities of the systems of marginalization that we live in. And I just want to add on and say that for many of us, this pandemic means that we're exposed to financial insecurity, which means that as an international students, we will experience an increased threat of harm. So yeah, I'm just really grateful that there's this form of support in the community.
Jackie Obungah 9:07
Yeah, that's really great to have that specifically as one of the centres for international students. But I think also, just from my conversations with you folks, the mutual aid fund expands so much beyond that there's a huge channel of support for Queer Youth for Youth who just need different forms of support. Ayaan do want to speak specifically about the supports that are available for like youth who are queer, youth who have the experience of being refugees in Canada specifically, and how just in general mutual aid and community forms of support either had gaps in how they're supported youth, specifically black youth who are specifically vulnerable, and how the mutual aid fund is bridging this gap.
Ayaan Ismaciil 9:42
Yes, so our funds at first we made it you know, open to everyone but then after I think, a month or so we decided to focus specifically on the most vulnerable among the Black community. So like, we specifically named like self identified senior citizens or like youth, disabled community members, so like folks who identify as LGBTQ2+, caregivers and guardians of children under 18, women who are like in vulnerable situations, international students, specifically also refugees. And so this is also understanding that just within the community, like, you know, there is vulnerability all around for the larger community, but there's also, you know, another layer of like, let's say, refugees, or like, you know, queer youth and all of that. And so, it's been really yeah, we've been really specific about who we support. And so, yeah, but thanks, you know, thanks to, I guess everything going on funds have really come through, folks in the community have really supported us. And that means that we've been able to support more folks than we even intended to at first. And so at this point, now, we just hear a lot of folks have really been supported. And like, you know, it really makes us all happy when we receive emails, or like text messages of like, thank you so much, this was really helpful and all of that. And we can already see the impact this fund is already having within the Black community specifically. And yeah, it ties to, again, how like, super, super important mutual aid care especially is. It is, you know, it's critical to everything we do, especially with what's going on right now. And like, you know, again, reiterating that it's not a new thing, it's not a new concept, especially here in so called Canada, it's something that has been practiced by a lot of other communities outside Canada, or like actually in Canada as well. And so, yeah, it's really good to see the fruits of it come through. And it's really thanks to again, all the money and all the donations is also coming from community members. Right? So it's community members supporting other community members, which is like, so cool. Yeah.
Jackie Obungah 12:00
Yeah, that's such a really incredible concept like you bring out and also I think we're just checking in as well, we're all living through a pandemic at this point. And how are both of you doing like, how have you been coping with this COVID situation? You know, what have been the points of the situations where you've had like highs and lows? And how are you, you know, how are you centering yourself and taking care of yourself during this time? We can start with Natasha.
Natasha Mhuriro 12:26
Yeah, honestly, when I'm asked this question, I usually don't know how to respond anymore. But I think it's been a mix of highs and lows throughout this pandemic. And I'm just grateful for community care and support that I get from the Black community, especially, you know, black women. I think I just feed off from the energy, you know, from just conversing with other black women in the community. But yeah, it's just been a mix of highs and lows. And I really, I can't give you, you know, an exact feeling and say that this is how I've been feeling or this is how I've been doing. But I'm just grateful for the support that I get from my family and within the Black community as well. So yeah, it's a very interesting time that we're in. And yeah, that's how I've been doing.
Jackie Obungah 13:18
That's incredible. Yeah, I think it's a really good point to highlight the fact that a lot of the feeling centered and feeling like you're able to cope with the pandemic is coming from the support you're receiving from black women. And I feel the same as well. Yeah, Ayaan, how are you doing? And how have you been, you know, coping and working through this pandemic?
Ayaan Ismaciil 13:37
Yeah, no, I have to agree with Natasha, that's a tough one. Yeah, there's a certain way my body reacts when someone asks me how I'm doing. So it's like, how far do you want me to go? And so it's like, but yeah, I'm existing. So how I'm doing is I'm existing. I'm surviving each day. And I'm here. So I think that's the important part of how I'm doing right now, again, being sustained, obviously, by the energy and like community support I'm getting from fellow Black folks in the community and specifically black woman that I'm close to, having long conversations until 3am sometimes and as much as that can be “Woah until 3am?” But that's where I get my care. And I'm really, like, thankful for that. In terms of the pandemic. It's been tough. A lot of black folks and like, generally, people in the community have lost their incomes and like jobs and like people are struggling, especially folks who are here by themselves and not with family. It's just a struggle, and like it's a lot of intersections, too. And so I think we're just here coping by being with people and engaging in you know, supporting this initiative for the mutual aid is how, yeah, that's how I'm coping, actually just supporting other people is where I get my care from also. So yeah, we're here,
Jackie Obungah 15:02
That's very fair as well. You know, there's a lot of times we feel especially like as black women in organizing, we're just, we're pouring from empty cups all the time. But community care really is a form of sustenance in its own self, the consistent practice of being in this space is where we're giving care to communities and in itself very fulfilling. So I can definitely see both your points and where you're coming from. Let's talk a bit about the fact that you're both students, and you do so much in the community in general as well. Yeah, you both go to SFU in your final semesters. I know you both personally. So I know how excited you are to end your long overdue academic careers. So talk a bit about being students and student organizing on campus, off campus, and how that's been in terms of like managing a student life and, and also organizing on campus and also just being part of the community, specifically, the Black community here in Vancouver. Yeah, I'm going to put this over to Natasha.
Natasha Mhuriro 15:55
Yeah, sure. It's honestly a lot of work, being a student, and also balancing that with community organizing, and also other aspects of life as well. But honestly, I'm honestly really fulfilled when like I organize events with the ASA, for example. And the event turned out, well, I'm honestly fulfilled with that. And that keeps me going, as well as like, the support that I get from the community just keeps me going as well. So I'd say it's, it's a lot of work balancing that as well. But that's what keeps me going, if that makes sense.
Jackie Obungah 16:38
Makes sense, yeah that's great. Ayaan how about you? You can also talk a bit about what the ASA is and how you've been involved with the ASA and any, like the past event that the ASA held and how that came about and how important that conversation was.
Ayaan Ismaciil 16:52
Yeah, so the ASA is the African Student Association. It's based, well, the SFU African Student Association, and Jackie and Natasha and I and other folks also co organize events through the ASA. It's tough being a student. And for me, it's tough being an SFU student specifically, for me, it hasn't been easy to be honest. And being like a black Muslim student on campus, you know, I've always faced, there's a lot of discrimination, there's a lot of specifically anti black racism, overt anti black racism experiences on campus. I have a lot of personal experiences with that. There's a lot of systemic racism, obviously, at SFU. And I think part of our organizing also comes from responding to that and not just not being like, you know, content with what the university is doing to address these issues. And I think it's really like, you know, we've said this, we've hosted events, we've hosted seminars and forums and conferences and everything trying to address this and trying to bring light to these real issues within the SFU university and community at large. And it's just like the University never shows up and never tries to do, from my experience and perspective, never tries to address the things we are trying to ask them to address. Especially the last event we organized through the ASA was the Black Youth in Organizing Event where we had seven panelists, and Natasha, Jackie, and I facilitated the conversation. And yeah, we looked at EDI, so equity, diversity and inclusion and how that looks like at SFU, which is non-existent in my opinion. We also looked at just general experiences of being SFU students, it wasn't just SFU students, we had students from UBC, we also had students from UVic. So University of Victoria, we had non-students who were just community members or folks who had graduated from SFU. And it was a really rich conversation of like, you know, looking at the youth perspective, or like black youth perspective of organising and the challenges we face and like, you know, a lot of people have been asking, especially with everyone having like, you know, finally an awakening of what's going on with regards to anti blackness. And so, yeah, we've put tips there on how we want to be supported. The video can be found on our Facebook, if you want to take some time and watch it there, you'll find out perspectives and what we want to see change moving forward. And so it's really critical for SFU and like, you know, especially with these community engagement initiatives to really work with students because we are the center of SFU, right? Without us students, I don't think the university will be existent to be honest. And so it will be great for these like community engagement initiatives not to function in silos of just staff and faculty but to really engage. And when I say engage, meaningfully engage students and create opportunities for us to actually, you know, support and do this work, because we know what we want, we know what change we want. And so it'll be great to have us take some leadership, you know, even opportunities or like leadership roles and like, try and change stuff from within the institution. So yeah, I just went on a rant.
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Jackie Obungah 20:18
That's totally fine. And I think you bring up an important point about black youth being the center of organizing, and specifically, black youth have intersections of being students and being also members of the community. This is something that comes up very frequently. And just tying it back to the event specifically leaving this up to you, Natasha, how important was it for the work that you do and the work the ASA does, and you do personally to centre the experience of black youth? The black youth as like points of expertise. How the voices of black youth consistently are either left out of conversations or completely disregarded in Vancouver and in university settings. Tell us a bit about the work that you do with ASA and other parts of the community to highlight the voices of black youth?
Natasha Mhuriro 20:59
Yeah, sure. I feel that it's extremely important to center the voices and expertise of black youth. And I'm really grateful for the ASA in that I'm able to use this platform to do so. And I just want to say that there's a lot of work as well that goes into community organizing, and it is incredibly important that this crucial work that is being led by black youth is meaningfully acknowledged, and it is especially imperative to recognize the contributions of you know, students of black students, especially to campus community life and beyond. So, you know, in the ASA, we are doing this, we’re ensuring that the leadership and expertise of black youth is centered. And I just hope that in the future, you know, this is something that this work carries on and that SFU and the community at large continues to support black youth and centering their voices in the community organizing as well. And also, just speaking about the ASA, I just want to highlight that the ASA is led by black youth, and the work that we do is unpaid. And you know I have just learned a lot. And it's just been a really great experience working with ASA over the past two years. And I, you know, just want to say that I'm forever indebted to the ASA team members who I have worked with over the past two years, who have and continue to tirelessly advocate and organize on behalf of the ASA. And I don't think that the ASA would be where it is today without black youth time, motivation and their effort. So I just want to take a moment to appreciate the SFU ASA team, who have always been there to support and organize on top of balancing schoolwork, personal lives and other commitments. So yeah, in summary, it's very important to centre the voices of black youth in community organizing.
Jackie Obungah 23:01
That's incredible and I think that the work that's being done is so important, and it builds off the work that we came already having found a foundation laid in the community and on campus as well. So we're also really grateful to the work that the people who came before us did and how it allowed us to not start from zero. And we hope that the folks who come after us also just feel the same, as well. And yeah, just moving on into still to do with youth and how of recent times there's been a lot going on, specifically things regarding the Black community and how we're coping with a lot of things. I know a big part of the work that we do with ASA, and just both of you do individually, really works hand in hand with Indigenous youth as well. So I'm just putting this out to Ayaan, tell us a bit about the work that you do and how important it is to work in solidarity with Indigenous communities. And how Indigenous youth and black youth are like the focal point of their communities moving forward.
Ayaan Ismaciil 23:54
Yeah, black and Indigenous communities, especially here in these lands, the solidarity and the bond has always been there and like co-organizing, and I think it's really important because, you know, specifically anti Indigenous racism and anti black racism is like very specific to our communities. And so a lot of times when people say, oh, “people of color”, or like, “Oh BIPOC”, it's really a way to erase experiences of Indigenous communities and black communities because like our experiences are very, very specific. Right? And that's why I think for me personally in the work I do there's just like, there's no way I can think about black liberation or like, you know, address anti black racism without thinking about or like also creating space for addressing anti Indigenous racism and especially knowing that we are on colonized land. Like this is occupied land, specifically here. It's unceded and so when we say unceded, it was never surrendered. It's stolen. It's occupied. And Black Liberation goes hand in hand with Indigenous sovereignty and achieving Indigenous liberation as well. And that's really like, you know, the basics are like the foundation of the work we do at ASA as well, is collaborate and work alongside Indigenous communities, work with their leadership, especially when it comes to Indigenous communities or like addressing Indigenous sovereignty specifically, and reconciliation, if that is even a word is working with their leadership, following their leadership and like what Indigenous sovereignty looks like for Indigenous communities and that's how we do it right? And so yeah, for me, it's really important as a displaced person, especially looking at how displacement informed or like brought me here and also knowing that as a displaced person, I am in complicity with the settler colonial state that is Canada with my existence on this land, right, which is a really, I guess, complex thing to look at, because I remember when I first arrived here it was like, people would say, "Oh, we're settlers" and I was just like, "What are you talking about?" So it took me a while to even like, you know, engage and read and like, you know, ask questions and be guided by really amazing black and Indigenous community members to understand this. And so I'm very clear, I'm very clear about settler hood, which can really be confusing, but also, I feel like people really use it in a larger context, like, let's say, for folks who are descendants of colonizers, specifically, your family came here as colonizers. We are not the same settlers, if that makes sense. Does that make sense Jackie? Yeah, so like we are not, it's not the same. And so for me, it's really at the timing personally, what settler hood looks like for me. Acknowledging for me that I am a settler, but not the same as like, let's say, descendants of the British or like, whatever. And so yeah, I don't know if I answered your question.
Jackie Obungah 26:59
Yeah, for sure. I think it's important that we know as black youth that one of our commitments to learning and unlearning our own biases and our own complicity with what the state of Canada is doing specifically, in it being a colonial state and a state that is consistently perpetuating violence towards Indigenous communities here is very important. We also speak a lot about how we take a lot of points of learning and a lot of points solidarity from Indigenous youth on this land, to how we also aim to move in solidarity and understand and learn better, about how we can also function back in our own Indigenous homelands, and how those two are also highly interconnected as well, and how we exist as black youth here. Obviously, we are coming towards the end of the podcast. And with that said, I just want to open up the floors and ask do you have anything that's coming up? Anything people should be looking out for? We know of a project that we're all doing, it's a podcast, the best place to talk about a podcast is on another podcast. So let's talk a bit about the upcoming podcasts that we have and what it is going to be centered on. And maybe not give a clear timeline, but just talk a bit about it and so people can watch out for it when it comes out.
Ayaan Ismaciil 28:11
Yeah, so the upcoming podcast is called The Hadithi Podcast. Hadithi in Swahili means stories. So we'll be bringing you specifically Afrocentric perspectives, youth perspectives, centering again, just specifically black and Indigenous youth, you know, we'll be looking at politics, art, we'll be looking at experiences of black youth in high school, in university or like colleges and, you know, we'll be chatting about even like trending conversations such as around like policing, and like police brutality, and, and all of that. We'll chat just about like, you know, talking about back home in the lands we come from and like, yeah, we'll just be chatting a lot, obviously, it's a podcast. It will be led by Jackie, Natasha and I as well, so look out for that. I don't think we have anything yet to promote. But it is in the works. So yeah, we're excited about this. So look out for that. It's called The Hadithi Podcast.
Jackie Obungah 29:12
Exactly. So yeah, I just wanted to take a moment to thank Ayaan and Natasha for joining us today, on Below the Radar. Check out for a lot of the work that they do with black youth and ASA and the mutual aid fund in BC and also donate if you can. That's a very important initiative. Thank you Ayaan and Natasha for being with us today and have a good rest of your day.
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Melissa Roach 29:32
Thanks again to Natasha Mhuriro and Ayaan Ismaciil for joining us on Below the Radar. Stay in the loop with Below the Radar by following us on Facebook at Below the Radar Pod and on Twitter at BTR underscore pod. And be sure to subscribe wherever you find your podcasts. As always, thank you to the team that puts this podcast together, including myself Melissa Roach, Fiorella Pinillos, Paige Smith, Jackie Obungah and Kathy Feng. Thank you to David Steele, the composer of our theme music and thanks to you for listening. Tune in next time for a brand new episode of Below the Radar.
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