Below the Radar Transcript
Episode 240: Clowns on Acid — with Kira Nova
Speakers: Kathy Feng, Am Johal, Kira Nova
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Kathy Feng 0:02
Hello listeners. I'm Kathy Feng with Below the Radar, a knowledge democracy podcast. Below the Radar is recorded on the territories of the Musqueam, Squamish, and Tsleil-Waututh peoples.
On this episode of Below the Radar, our host Am Johal is joined by artist and comedian Kira Nova. They chat about growing up in the circus, clowning, experimental pedagogy and Kira’s psychedelic clown workshops. Enjoy the episode!
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Am Johal 0:33
Hello, welcome to Below the Radar. Delighted that you could join us again this week. We have a special guest with us, Kira Nova. Welcome Kira.
Kira Nova 0:42
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Am Johal 0:46
Kira, I'm wondering if we can begin with you introducing yourself a little bit.
Kira Nova 0:51
Yeah, well, first of all, my name is Kira Nova. I am an artist, also immersive theater director. As well as, I'm leading these psychedelic clown workshops here in LA, and soon in New York. I've been also teaching at Lund University for the past 12 years. And you know, been working a lot with artists of different disciplines and performed a lot solo too, like I have about 10 years of practice of solo work. And I also grew up in a circus.
Am Johal 1:32
I'm going to talk to you about each of those things. You know, I said mentioned to you before I work out of the School for Contemporary Arts at Simon Fraser University and you have such a range of practices from comedy, clown, immersive theater, teacher, mentorship, therapy, experimental pedagogy. And I'm wondering if you could sort of speak a little bit to those practices and how they've emerged in terms of the way that you work in various contexts.
Kira Nova 2:02
You know, I always followed my interest. And I think that my interest travels a lot. And it has a certain thread where everything does connect. Like, for instance, I studied political science. But somehow I did convince my professors that I would write a thesis on showmanship. Or, for instance, a while—oh, yeah. Or I would write about the theatricality of the European Union. (laughs) And eventually, yeah, I think that... I don't even know, maybe something more precise, if you would ask me which of these things that maybe are a bit more interesting to you?
Am Johal 2:47
Yeah, well, I mean, I know that you're like a multi-generational clown. Or, the practice of clowning in the sense that I believe your mother was involved. Wondering if you could talk a little bit about how, you know, you've been doing this for a long time, since being a child.
Kira Nova 3:05
Yeah. It is very actually formative. And it took me a while to absolutely recognize how formative was my upbringing to me. Because both of my parents, they're artists. My mom is an actress, and also, for some reason, she decided that she should become a comedian and clown. Meanwhile, my dad is an art historian. And also my—for instance, I was also raised by my grandmother, who was director of a university. So like all of these things, which seem to be like, how did you go from this to that? Unfortunately, I'm not that original. And it's just continuing with the environment that, that I was brought up, you know? And to speak more about clowning, back in the day. My parents they were... I grew up in Lithuania, and my mom is Russian. And this tradition of clowning that she studied is French. Like Lecoq technique, right? Even the way we joined, for instance, the circus, she actually was a renegade with that, because she collected—she gathered a group of children from ages 7 to 10. And we devise acts, and that's actually incredible if I think about it. We wrote our own acts. And she trained us in Lecoq method. And we wrote our own acts, which were brilliant. And in fact, I think I could trace back that method of work to my solo shows afterwards. It was really like a writing comedy about mundane objects, about, like, how the ice cream is melting. And for us kids, it was really funny. And I think that's, that's the brilliance of that thing that my parents created. And we managed to convince a rather straightforward circus company to take us on the road, you know. Because we were nonverbal act, entirely abstract, absolutely absurd. And performed by like, really young kids. Yeah.
Am Johal 5:16
Yeah. What do you remember in terms of traveling with the circus as a kid?
Kira Nova 5:21
Oh god, lots of things to be honest. From like, rather dark things to, to like really bright ones. Like, for instance, you know, when you go on stage at the age of 7, and you have at least 500 people, like, applauding you, and you're doing your solo. And that's it, like, I'm sorry, but from then onwards, you are addicted to adrenaline. (laughs) In taxi driver, like my life was going to one direction, and there's no other way around it.
Yeah, so that was sure. And, oh, one thing that sticks with me forever was a story of the star of the circus getting fired. And I was very surprised by it, because it was—you know, in the hierarchy of the circus, on the top are the acrobats. They're like the top. And we had the best acrobats. She was like doing trapeze. And at some point, she got fired. And they explained to me as a kid, like I couldn't understand it. But they said she had a "star illness." There is this expression in Russian. And I was like, "What does it mean?" And it turned out later, I understood. She, she became so self absorbed in her stardom, the circus director realized that she reached her limit. And that's it, even though she was like the centre of the act, of the whole show. It was unmanageable. It was like diva syndrome. And, and in circus, at least in that company, it was not welcome anymore. Everyone had to be kind of like a family. They fired her.
Am Johal 7:13
I was gonna ask you about, you know, working in such an embodied artistic practice, what you find generative in terms of that mode of working. Particularly in the artistic realm, as opposed to, I don't know... You could become a fitness instructor or a yoga instructor or something like this. There's something inside of an artistic practice that can be more playful and liberatory in a number of ways. But I'm wondering if you could speak a little bit to the choice of working in an embodied way.
Kira Nova 7:50
I'm also very simple. So after my years in circus, and growing up creating acts—you know, like, creating props, costumes, acts. Something happened to me that I ended up eight years in academia with like three theses. Academic work, academic writing, even though about showmanship but still, you know? And even in academia, I was like... My approach was always with artistic and I thought, oh, yeah, I'm like, so creative. But when I wanted to create works, it was all like neocortex, calculated stuff. And it would all come out, in this very boring way. The only thing that really helped me—and you know, it's like a pain for the soul. If you're, if you're really bury somewhere, very deep, your artistic calling, and, and your logic really takes over. So at some point, like, I couldn't find the code. All the projects that I was—all the ideas or art things that I was coming up with, they were not exciting at all. And I took this 10-day workshop at the Berlin Dance Festival. Which was for dancers, it was insanely intense, it was like four to five hours a day of training for 10 days non stop. I was only physical and that really broke, like entirely broke my habit of thinking logically and shifted entirely my way of just seeing visions. And I again, was back to where I was when I was a child. Like, I was able to see visions. And ever since then, I've invested so much time in finding these kinds of exercises that would help me first of all, and then eventually my students and people that I coached to shift like that, you know?
Am Johal 9:53
Kira, you've lived in different places. You know, as you said, you were born in Lithuania. You lived in Europe, New York, LA. I'm wondering if you could speak a little bit to as your artistic practice has developed, how it has landed down or circulated in these different places? Because you come from different intellectual traditions, you've had a chance to experiment in different places. But cultures are also very different in terms of when artistic practices are tried out in various places. And wondering if you could speak a little bit to the nuance of working these different ways, or teaching in Sweden and how this work translates. Like the, kind of, maybe code switching that's necessary for it to be understood. Or that it's fine that it lands down in different ways in different places.
Kira Nova 10:41
It really, there is... There is, for instance, a general misconception among Europeans that Northern Europeans, Canadians, and Americans, are basically the same as Europeans. But really mentality wise, there is a huge difference. And it takes a while to understand those. And maybe we will never understand all of the layers. And it's true that certain things entirely do no translate. You have to entirely change the language, the way you are talking to people. Like for instance, I'm used to teaching Europeans. Like mostly I—yeah, it's true, I worked in Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium a little bit. But primarily Scandinavia. And also, I am actually a Northern European myself. And what I value is, like, if someone tells me that, for instance, either a project or a course is going to be academically rooted in tradition, that we will work hard, and we'll learn a lot. You know, and it will be very valuable. And I always want that in the course. And I would always, you know, at the beginning, when I started teaching U.S. I would say that and I would have zero students. But then I had to learn that, as a teacher—at least in U.S., I only taught there—oh, no, I did teach in Canada, where it was different. But in the U.S. specifically, a teacher is a showman. Yeah, and you have to really, like, you have to promise that the workshop will be fun. It will be fun, it will be liberating, which is paradoxical, because it's like, as if there is any challenge to freedom here anyways, but... (laughs) Yeah, the workshop has to be a show. And at the end, I was really surprised, like, for instance, the end of my workshops in the past—before I learned the mentality, of, for instance, American students—I would end it on this very Scandinavian note, you know, like calm, introverted. And ideally, like, my understanding of a good workshop, is if everyone works out quietly. (laughs) Then I learned that in U.S., that's basically our understanding of, "Wow, the workshop failed." Like students should have, like, cheers, like, go crazy at the end. That sounds like really high. So yeah.
Am Johal 13:24
In terms of some of the projects and workshops of various kinds when thinking of Clowns on Acid, other ones that you've done, experimental, kind of, interventions. They're all sort of in the realm of experimental pedagogy, in a way. And I think for people who don't quite fit into a traditional model as well, there's a way in to the work itself. And I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about a few of these projects that you've done. As, I don't know if experimental pedagogy is the right term, but like different types of interventions where you're walking, doing the work in an embodied way, and not on a stage not on a traditional stage.
Kira Nova 14:06
Yeah, yeah, that's right. I would almost say there are two parts to your question here. On the one hand, it's true that you could call what I'm doing experimental pedagogy. However, I don't know if academia is yet even fully ready for this kind of study. But I hope at one point it will be. I am interested in the state of being of an artist, right. And we usually teach subjects. Like we usually teach performance stage work, I don't know, method acting. Something has to be a subject. Whereas I want the subject to be only a tool, in order to reach down to the essence of an artist. Of a student at that moment. And I'm always more interested in the, you know, for instance, working in art academies. I'm always interested in how can, once the artist graduates either bachelor or master degree program, how well can they navigate their own artistic container? Like how well can they know their patterns of work, for instance? And how well can they adjust it to any given situation? Because, especially in art academies, where the work of—actually academics, everyone, we all work individually afterwards, once we, once we graduate. And this issue of, but how do you navigate the container of—psychology container of an artist? And what tools could you use, you know? Because then eventually, then I could say, "Oh, you know what, those tools from physical theatre can help you." Or this tool from method acting can actually bring you in, or like, or if you're stuck that will work. And what if, like, one big part of academic education, especially of a creative person would be their ability to be masters of themselves as well. Not only a master of their subject, you know? So that's, that's the only, let's say, I have ontological approach to education. I think that we are not entirely... Like, not that many academics are ready for that. And thank god that Malmö Art Academy supported me throughout this process. And I had a lot of academic guidance, how to build this kind of curriculum. And it's like a full on proper, it's there is nothing too experimental. Of course, there are studio visits, there are classes, there are lectures, there are techniques, you know? I'm... just my subject is a human, instead of a subject. Now, in terms of moving the shift away from the stage, it's true, like, I've been doing this project since 2009. Where I always thought that it would be nice to use whatever we're using in art or in stage work as means of creating surreal and magical environments in real life, you know? And, especially for actors, this kind of practice where they have to pass as a real character in a real life situation, can very quickly polish their craft. (laughs) To put it this way, yeah.
Am Johal 17:43
I'm wondering with like a couple of specific projects, Clowns on Acid and Power Trip, there seems to be in some of these interventions and projects a kind of potentially therapeutic aspect to them. And I'm wondering, you know, sort of where that line between artistic practice and the potential for the intervention or the embodied practice to have a kind of therapeutic element involved. And I'm wondering if you talk a little bit more of those two projects in particular?
Kira Nova 18:18
Yeah, of course, there are a few aspects that are very therapeutic there. First of all, in both Clowns on Acid and Power Trip, the difference between these two is that Clowns on Acid was created primarily for physical comedians, and people that work on stage. And Power Trip is open to absolutely everyone, anyone who feels that that's for them. But, and okay, so the difference there is that in Clowns on Acid, we will have actual stage drills. Whereas in Power Trip, we avoid those. And we work differently then, we work more as a group. With a lot of also individual attention, but not as much as putting you on the spot. Now, what is the most therapeutic aspect of it? I would say, we work often with states that could be called psychedelic states or trance states or light states of trance. They also assimilate a little bit to active hypnosis or slightly altered states. Right, and this comes from—primarily from my studies of Japanese Butoh. That's how a lot of Japanese physical theater performers train. That's almost like their take on method acting. But I have also studied therapy, psychology and bioenergetics. And I also adjusted these practices, because if you will take them pure from—I started one on one with Butoh Master for four years—but if you will take them pure as they are... They're a bit too harsh at the moment, I think, and not necessarily everyone can handle them.
But when you take the principle of this kind of body work that brings the brain into the psychedelic state... When you take the principal, and then dilute it with—it's not so popular in an English speaking world, but it's called body-oriented psychotherapy. It's when we use movement and body in order to answer certain psychological questions, right. So, so when you kind of mix those things with these, that's where very deep therapeutic effects happens in the workshop. Where—that's where people release a lot of emotions, a lot of unnecessary blocks. They return to that state of bliss and mischief, you know?
Am Johal 20:59
I also enjoy watching your Instagram Live interventions. And lately you've talked on everything ranging from laziness to sensuality, and comedy and performance. But wondering if you could speak a little bit to the social media side of your interventions. Because they, I guess, in a way, build on your artistic practice as well.
Kira Nova 21:25
That's really nice to hear that you watch them because they... They're anti-format completely. (laughs) Like, basically—and it's not even anti-format to say that people don't like them. Whoever finds them, they like them. But Instagram algorithms do not favour this content. (laughs) It's really funny, like, there is so many obstacles to create this. Like, the algorithm usually would hide it, like. It doesn't show it to anyone. It's, like, Instagram doesn't like anything that's past 15 seconds length. And in my case, I'm like, I don't know, most of all I have too much respect to the group of artists, creatives, or who knows... Some kind of interesting people who are following me because I, I've tried creating content, even yesterday, that's 15 seconds long, and it hurt. Like I, actually I never posted it. It was one thought. And I was like, how horrible is that. I can't. This is like, it goes against everything that I believe, I can't post one thought, that's terrible. It's such a chaos when that happens. So, I don't know, at some point, I just felt like I want to, I want to break this, this dehumanization that happens online. And I just wanted to open my phone and directly talk to people, as I am. Like, hi. Unfiltered. Not sending anything else. And so they will also be used to how I'm thinking and it is true. It's just like chains or ideas or insights. Yeah.
Am Johal 23:09
And what are you, sort of, struggling with or thinking about in terms of your artistic practice? Like what are your concerns right now in terms of what you're working on?
Kira Nova 23:21
Mostly, it's true, it's communication. Because it's, it's also true that it's like translating what I see, what I feel, to the language of people that surround me. And also to the language of mediums that I'm using. And actually being careful about it, and not getting hurt when people don't understand it from the first time. I think that's the main, yeah, that's the main concern. Like how do I pass, pass this on?
Am Johal 23:57
There's a kind of levity, joy, and spontaneity in the way that you work. In as much as you can plan some things ahead of time, a lot of what you do, as well, is very much in the moment and that takes a certain type of... It's a certain type of risk taking, because you don't necessarily know your audience that you're walking into and who you're going to be working with. So I'm wondering how you deal with some of the stakes being, sort of, out of your hands when you're embarking upon an embodied practice with a group of people?
Kira Nova 24:32
Bite onto everybody. Get angry, strangle them in the toilet. (laughs) Slap them around if they don't listen. Lose my temper. (laughs) No it's, it's... All of it I'm trying to hide my desire to control. No it's really funny, because I think my biggest shadow is, like, desire to control. And then I'm, paradoxically, all of the things I'm coming up with, like, they're just asking to fly out of my control. Like, we call them games. The Idiots Expeditions, most probably you're asking about that project.
Am Johal 25:22
Yeah.
Kira Nova 25:23
It's a very, very early stage of this project. And I it's like my baby, you know, like, sort of a newborn. I have to be delicate about it. And I'm learning how to do that. (laughs). Because, like, my biggest problem, is that it's true, I don't lose my temper. But then if something doesn't go well, I just get sad. And I'm like why are you even sad? It's okay, you know that it's not always gonna go well.
But to give our listeners a context. Idiots Expeditions is typically a group of clowns, or comedians. Or clowns, meaning people who study physical comedy. In the style of clowning. We usually dress up in the best outfits that anyone else, like tuxedos, night gowns, whatever. Like everything that could say "status." Grandma's rings, grandfather's polished shoes. And then we devise games. We talk about it in advance, we break into twos usually, and we pretend that we don't know each other. And we usually go to places that are very saturated with status. And very confined with lots of rules of behavior. Even, let's say art openings, that's one of them. But it could be also some five star hotel restaurant. And our task there is to delicately—using precisely like the tools of psychology, and the tools of somewhat healing—to create, essentially magic. But we're we try to avoid playing a character, or playing entertaining scenarios for people. We're trying to work almost like con artists slash football players. We usually gently start conversations with, let's say, people at the hotel or the opening. And then we slowly begin to move them—those conversations and those people—into the realm of play. But without direct suggestions at all. Like, it's actually not as easy to explain. But most importantly, the intention overall is to, to birth this, kind of, confined of a status and of a coded behavior, in favor of playfulness, and in favor of openness. Because there are certain communities—and it's not like, it's not news to anyone, but for instance, art world is a very closed in community. There's mega closed in. But it promises that that's the place of play for the society. But good luck talking to the gallerist or the artist actually, if you're not wearing a tuxedo on grandfather's ring. (laughs)
And, I don't think that anyone wants that. It became like the snowball of status that rolled, rolled, rolled and now everybody's suddenly stuck in this one big ice cube, you know? But I don't think anyone wants that. There is also a desire to play, like in the 70s.
Am Johal 29:02
Are there, are there artists that you've, you know, been influenced by or inspired by that you could speak of?
Kira Nova 29:10
No. (laughs)
Am Johal 29:12
(laughs) No, you're a complete original.
Kira Nova 29:16
Never. (laughs) I am the one. No, a lot of artists. Or, just lots of... Actually, first of all, my first husband Michael Portnoy. Definitely, like we were together for nine years and we still on the phone every day—almost every day. Then Ivo Dimchev, huge influence. Then all of my teachers, people who have trained me, they're also artists. Like, for instance, Helga Davis, Vangeline, and other people that are more athletic. Who else? The—of course Andy Kaufman, also big.
I don't know, I overall, actually came to LA to train Jim Carrey. I wanted to give him workshops but I haven't met him yet.
Am Johal 30:11
He's from Canada, you know? (laughs)
Kira Nova 30:16
Anyone, if anyone knows—
Am Johal 30:20
Jim Carrey, if you're listening, Kira Nova is available for one on one workshops for you to advance your practice.
Kira Nova 30:30
Yeah, like I've been here for 3 years already, I still haven't seen him at the studio.
Am Johal 30:35
A long time to wait. Yeah. We remember you from the In Living Color days, Jim Carrey.
Kira, is there anything you'd like to add?
Kira Nova 30:47
Oh my god, no. Just that thing about Jim Carrey. If he got me in I'm... he can give me a call. (laughs)
Am Johal 30:56
Yeah. (laughs) Jim, DM us, we'll connect you up directly over email.
Kira Nova 31:05
Yeah, DM or follow the link in bio. (laughs)
Am Johal 31:11
Kira, thank you so much for joining us on Below the Radar.
Kira Nova 31:16
Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, it's really a pleasure. Thank you so much.
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Kathy Feng 31:25
Below the Radar is a knowledge democracy podcast created by SFU’s Vancity Office of Community Engagement. Thanks for listening to our conversation with Kira Nova. Head to the shownotes to find out more about her art practice and workshops.
If you would like to support our podcast, you can donate at the link in the description below. Your generous donation will help support the podcast's activities and associated public events with SFU's Vancity Office of Community Engagement.
Thanks again for listening, and we’ll catch you next time on Below the Radar.
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