Below the Radar Transcript
Episode 230: See How We Run! From a Place of Care — with Asia Jong and Vitória Monteiro
Speakers: Samantha Walters, Julia Aoki, Kathy Feng, Vitória Monteiro, Asia Jong
[theme music]
Samantha Walters 0:07
Hello listeners, welcome to See How We Run! Conversations with arts and cultural workers. This is a special Below the Radar series hosted by…
Julia Aoki 0:17
Julia Aoki.
Kathy Feng 0:18
Kathy Feng.
Samantha Walters 0:19
And Samantha Walters. See How We Run! is a mini series looking at local arts collectives and organizations, highlighting conversations about creation, space making, accessibility and self determination within the framework of Vancouver's cityscape. These episodes are recorded on the unceded territories of the Musqueam Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh nations.
Kathy Feng 0:43
On this episode of See How We Run! we're joined by two cultural workers. Asia Jong, and Vitória "veto" Monteiro. Asia is a curator and arts facilitator and was one of the co-organizers of Ground Floor Art Centre, a collectively-run gallery studio and project space with a focus on supporting early emerging artists. Veto is a visual artist and currently the Acting Curator of Learning and Engagement at the Contemporary Art Gallery. Together, we chat about some of their previous work and individual practices, creating opportunities for emerging artists and incorporating accessibility into the gallery, as well as the importance of centering care and joy and arts and cultural spaces. We hope you enjoy the episode.
[theme music fades]
Kathy Feng 1:34
Hello, welcome back to Below the Radar. My name is Kathy Feng and I will be your host this week. I'm here with some very lovely people, Veto Monteiro and also Asia Jong. And I guess I will start by doing a visual description of myself. The three of us are currently sitting in SFU's Vancity Office of Community Engagement's satellite office at 312 Main. I have headphones on, I have blue hair and wearing a brown turtleneck and a black sweater. And I will pass it off to Veto and maybe you could start by introducing yourself.
Vitória Monteiro 2:12
Thanks, Kathy. Really excited to be here. Yeah, my name is Veto or Vitória Monteiro. Happy to be sharing space with you both today. Whoo. For my visual description, I have wavy short brown hair, that's kind of bunched up into a black toque today. I'm wearing a black sweater with a white collar, very proper school vibes. I have black pants on, and I'm playing with a little fidget toy. I have a septum piercing and hazel eyes, and sort of, light olive skin. So that's me, check.
Kathy Feng 2:52
And Asia?
Asia Jong 2:53
Hi, thank you so much for inviting me Kathy. My name is Asia Jong. My pronouns are she/her. I'm from a really small town called Armstrong, in the interior of BC. My visual description of myself is I have brown eyes, black hair with blonde under tone. And I have a white mockneck on currently and very long fingernails. I just got done for my birthday.
Kathy Feng 3:23
And they're so beautiful. I wish we could show you.
Asia Jong 3:27
I can do this. (Sound of fingernails rubbing against each other)
Kathy Feng 3:28
Oh, yes.
Vitória Monteiro 3:30
That is everything. ASMR.
Kathy Feng 3:35
Yeah. So maybe we could start with also just a general introduction of yourself and your practice. Because I brought you both together because you're both artists, cultural workers, facilitators. So yeah, maybe again, Veto. We'll start with you.
Vitória Monteiro 3:50
Yeah. I realized I didn't say my pronouns. I don't think I did. But my pronouns are they/them and sometimes she/her. Um, about me... I, yeah, I'm an artist. I am a cultural worker. I just repeat what you say back. I'm an artist, cultural worker. I work at the Contemporary Art Gallery currently, as a Curator of Learning and Engagement. I also am a facilitator. I'm a board member, recently Board President of grunt gallery, which feels kind of ridiculous. (laughs) Who let me do that?
So I was born in Brazil, Belém do Pará. I was born at the mouth of the Amazon River, which is important, especially for me. My family is from Recife, which is in the Northeast of Brazil. That's where everybody lives except for my mom. But I grew up in BC, in Victoria, going back to Brazil every two years. And yeah, so I'm Brazilian and half Colombian as well. Yeah, I mean, a little bit about my practice—I mean, I think a lot about accessible spaces, accessibility within the arts. I think about how to make office culture and office spaces more joyful and rooted in play and nice things. I think it's hard to be a cultural worker. And it is a space that is mostly about, sort of—what's the word—extraction. Very extraction based, and burnout is intense, and just thinking about more ways to lean into joy and play at work. So I don't know whether that made sense. But yeah, I guess that's a little bit about me.
Kathy Feng 5:43
Thank you. Asia?
Asia Jong 5:47
I'm really bad at talking about myself. So I'm just gonna preface that. Yeah, I'm also a cultural worker, and emerging curator, and arts facilitator. I have my own independent curatorial practice, but I've also been part of an art collective called Ground Floor over the past years. And I think something that I really prioritize is, similar to Veto, just thinking about playfulness and care. I think a huge part of my own practice, and my practice as part of a collective, has been like the—the foundation being built on the idea of friendship. I think one of the only reasons why I do what I do, and I'm involved with the arts, is because I just have a craving for making connections with people and meeting new people and becoming friends with people. And art is an amazing way to facilitate that. So I think that's like one of the foundations of why I'm interested in even doing any of the stuff that I do currently. Yeah.
Kathy Feng 6:53
Thank you.
Vitória Monteiro 6:54
That was a good answer.
Kathy Feng 6:55
A wonderful answer. Um, yeah, I think maybe that's a really great segue, because I wanted to, kind of, go into talking about Ground Floor. Like you mentioned, it's an art collective that you were a part of, and you did a lot of work with. And I guess I wanted to ask you about the story if you want to share about how it started and what inspired you to start working with them?
Asia Jong 7:20
Yeah, totally. So Ground Floor was a DIY arts collective, based out of Vancouver. It was started and founded by artists Yasmine Haiboub, Jack Kenna, and India Eliot Oates. And then shortly joined by Carlan Savage Hughes and myself. Yeah, we operated a small gallery space in one of the abandoned shopping malls in Chinatown. Now it's not so abandoned, but at the time we were one of the only people in the mall. And yeah, we had a space there from 2018 to 2020. And we ended up exhibiting over 125 artists. A lot of it in the form of exhibitions, but also through workshops, concerts, festivals, performances and sales. And it was also a space that we were able to provide for free for auditions, rehearsals, tutoring, fundraisers, and other sort of studio visits for early emerging art practitioners in Vancouver. So yeah, we, we sort of operated this space for about two years. And we were putting on exhibitions and events, like, two to three times a month. So it was like really intense. Yeah, we did it all out of a labour of love. We were completely not funded by any grant money. Yeah, trying to do fundraisers, karaoke parties, anything to sort of make back some money for studio rent. But yeah, it was completely run out of our own volition, and through, like, the support of artists and community members that were willing to participate and be part of... be part of like the Ground Floor community. So it was like super, super special.
And yeah, we really emphasized that Ground Floor was a place for—and is foundationally for early emerging artists. Which we describe as different from being an emerging artist, because emerging artist has such a broad definition. Whether or not that's defined by, like, an institution or like the Canada Council, or whatever, an emerging artist, I think can be... That terminology is very daunting, because you're either, what, an emerging artist, or you're a mid-career artist? There's like no in between. So for us, we were really thinking about how can we support early emerging artists, those that have never had opportunities before. Artists that have just come out of school, or maybe they, maybe they went to art school 20 years ago, and they want to explore their practice again. People that haven't had an opportunity to get the resources that they've needed to sort of further expand their artistic practice. So yeah, that was really our priority for Ground Floor.
Another thing that I just wanted to quickly mention too, is that I think the reason why Ground Floor was really important for early emerging artists was because it was a space that you could fail in. And I think that that space isn't given to... There isn't the opportunity to have that type of experimentation, and have, as we describe, a positive approach to failure. Because like, we were all doing it all, like, we had no idea what we're doing. We're like, flying by the seat of our pants, we're like, so burnt out and just like trying our best and working with artists, and like, there are so many ways in which we fail, but we learned so much from it. And there was, like, a lot of artists' projects that also were, like, they didn't turn out the way that they wanted, or we had to postpone the opening for, like, the next week, because the artwork wasn't ready. Or, you know, there was just so many aspects of having a space, and artists putting on a show for the first time, that it was just a place that it was okay. Like it was okay to fuck up, and it was okay to, to fail. And through that, I think it was really an opportunity to learn more about like, yeah, how to do any of it. How to put on a show, how to spackle a wall, how to curate paintings. Like, it was just an exercise and all of that. So I think that was, like, super important for us too, that it was a place that was not precious. It was a place that we could just like, do what we could, and try and have fun while we're doing it. So yeah, just also wanted to mention that too.
Kathy Feng 12:00
Yeah.
Vitória Monteiro 12:00
That is so beautiful. It's so beautiful. And so important... Contribution and offering to the city for early emerging artists to be able to, to fail. I think just, like, hearing you talk about that, I mean, I've witnessed a lot of spaces in the city that everything feels like the stakes are very high, and you're only as good as your last show. And if it goes bad, or if it's written about poorly, or you know, then it's going to make or break your career type. Everything feels really rigid and scary. And especially for people who are new to the, to the space and to be able to, to get started in a space that care is centred. I mean, that's, that's what I'm hearing as you're talking about is the care... And I didn't know that you weren't funded. I did not know that. That is, that is so insane. And incredible, and makes me so sad at the same time. Like, I don't know, I just—Yeah, where does money go? Like these beautiful spaces that enrich and nourish and are spaces that we can care for each other and uplift each other and fail together. And that's like, really what it's all about.
Asia Jong 13:17
Yeah, totally.
Vitória Monteiro 13:19
I mean, that's a whole conversation of like, you know, where—who's supported and, and money and whatever. But anyway, I just want to add that.
Asia Jong 13:28
Yeah, totally. Thank you. I think, for us, and for me, especially, I really had an emphasis that we weren't funded, because I didn't want to be bound to anybody. We really didn't want to have to, you know, just get into the whole rigmarole of being funded and then existing purely for the funding. We were doing it because we wanted to, and not because we had to, or we had any financial obligation to. And it existed for that period of time. And, you know, now we don't have the space anymore, and... But that was like the beauty of it, was that we were able to do that. And it served us and it was able to, most importantly, serve like the early emerging artists that we're working with. But then yeah, it's fleeting. It's not precious, you know? So it's something that we could let go.
Vitória Monteiro 14:20
I mean, I'm curious, and maybe we—this is something we're talking about now or later. Well, I'm just curious about the conversations that were had to, to stop doing it. Or to dissolve—or I don't know, I'm curious a little bit to hear about—and whether you feel comfortable or you even want to talk about that, you know, that's up to you. Because, I mean, you mentioned burnout, and like, I think that it's so difficult to walk away from things that are precious and important and blood, sweat and tears have been put into it and then also prioritize the self and your physical well being. That is just as important as well. And like that conversation, how did it go? How did it feel? It was emotional, I'm sure. But I don't know if that's...
Kathy Feng 15:09
Yeah, if you feel comfortable going? Yeah,
Asia Jong 15:11
I mean, I can speak a little bit about that. Because honestly, I think it's still maybe even a conversation that needs to be had. Or it's been partially had, or it's been understood, but maybe not fully resolved. But essentially, it boils down to the fact that we're all getting older and getting different experiences and are prioritizing different parts of ourselves and our practices. And people move away, Jack Kenna, one of my best friends, he's left the city. You know, other friends, they just move on to different projects. And the thing is, that because Ground Floor existed for early emerging artists, and we were so in tune with that community, once we start progressing in our own careers and our own practices, like the question is, how in tuned are we with that anymore? And you know, Jack's, for example, gone on to be represented by a gallery. Other friends maybe aren't so involved with the arts anymore. Like for me, I've sort of taken on different roles at other galleries. And, yeah, I think that the integral part of Ground Floor is supporting early emerging artists. And if we can no longer connect as easily with that community, that means that we aren't the appropriate ones to be doing that work anymore. So I think that was like a really tough thing to face and to recognize, but something that we always knew was going to be the case, as we like progress forward in our careers and our practices. But yeah, that's basically, yeah, why.
Kathy Feng 15:41
And that's such a difficult decision to come to terms with because, as you mentioned, it started from a place of love and of care and of community. So I imagine it's really hard to walk away from it. But as you mentioned before, it's meant to be something that isn't super precious, like fleeting. And I think that had opened up many doors for a lot of early emerging artists. But also, it is important to prioritize yourself, and think about where you want to go.
Asia Jong 17:31
Totally. Yeah, totally. Absolutely.
Vitória Monteiro 17:33
I think there's something to say about being able to end something when the time is right, and to be able to walk away. And that is an okay thing and an acceptable thing. And you've displayed this model, and way of being, to a space and community and that people have seen that. And that can be picked up by other people, you know, like, that's—it's not just something you provided for the space here, but it's an example. This is how something can be done. And there's a lot of doers out there. And yeah.
Asia Jong 18:10
And there was a point that we hoped that we would be able to, like pass along, you know, Ground Floor. But the thing is that there's, there's nobody that will, that will love it and care for it the same way that yeah, that you did. And in that regard, like I would hope if anybody ever did want to start something and had any questions about like, how do you even begin with trying to organize like this sort of art collective or art space? I would hope that, yeah, anybody would feel comfortable to reach out and ask me or any member of Ground Floor, I'm sure we would be so happy to answer any questions or anything. But yeah, when it's your baby, it's like, no—
Kathy Feng 19:00
Yeah.
Asia Jong 19:00
Everyone's gonna have their own baby, you know. And then when it's time to let it go, then away it goes. (laughs)
Kathy Feng 19:06
You send it to preschool.
Asia Jong 19:07
Exactly. And also, another thing about Ground Floor ending has to do with COVID, as well.
Kathy Feng 19:16
Yeah. Maybe we can, we can circle over to there. Just, you know, with COVID hitting, the pandemic, and it really did a huge number to a lot of DIY spaces, when people couldn't gather anymore. And yeah, can you speak on how you navigated that period of uncertainty?
Asia Jong 19:37
Yeah, totally. So at that time, right before COVID hit, we actually were preparing to move and renovate a whole new space. And so we had been working really hard. We had gotten, like, a lawyer, and like we had been doing, like, asbestos tests in the space. We were, like, going over a lease and trying to sign a lease negotiating terms with the landlord. And we were just about to sign the lease when the landlord told us that what they told us about the zoning was incorrect. So it was zoned for residential and not for industrial.
Vitória Monteiro 20:15
What the hell.
Kathy Feng 20:15
Oh my God.
Asia Jong 20:17
And so all the work that we had ever done, like, trying to make this move happen just sort of fell through the cracks of our fingers.
Vitória Monteiro 20:26
That's a huge oversight. What?
Asia Jong 20:27
Yeah.
Kathy Feng 20:29
And the worst timing too because at that point, you can't really start looking for other spaces, right?
Asia Jong 20:34
Well, the thing is, that actually was perfect timing, because then COVID hit—
Vitória Monteiro 20:40
And then you would have had a space.
Asia Jong 20:41
—and we would have got a space, and we would have had to, like, pay for the rent and to lease the space and renovate it during COVID at a time that was so uncertain. It was actually, like, a blessing in disguise, because we weren't on the hook. We had given up our old space, we had taken our names off the lease of our old space. And at that time, we weren't—we were no longer financially tied to renting any space. So in the end, it was actually good for us. But it did sort of put the nail in the coffin, yeah, for Ground Floor having a space again.
But I did also want to mention that the model of Ground Floor is not the first to be seen. And that I totally recognize that Ground Floor like it exists because of spaces before it, that had done things like Ground Floor. Spaces like Duplex Artists Society, spaces like Dynamo. Those spaces that were studio-run and then had gallery space, they paved the way for places like Ground Floor to exist. And that sort of model is really like the only reason why any early emerging artists were able to like have any shows in the city. And so Ground Floor definitely is, you know, the little sibling of these spaces. That existed because of a reaction to artists-run centres, being unable to access artist-run centres. And artists-run centres, you know, exists out of reaction to not being able to have access to like larger institutions. So it's like this trickle down thing where it's like, larger institutions like, yeah, the Vancouver Art Gallery is obviously an impossible place to think of, like, being able to exhibit. So you know, artists-run centres exists as a place to support local artists. And then when that place feels even unattainable, that's when these sorts of DIY art collectives and spaces start emerging. So yeah, anyways, just wanted to give that shout out.
Kathy Feng 22:53
Thank you.
Vitória Monteiro 22:54
Totally.
Kathy Feng 22:55
And I’ve been to a few events at Ground Floor before and was actually programmed once through our friend Kalvin Valko. And for me, I definitely remember it as such a special space for community that you held there. And definitely the pandemic really shifted the scene and Vancouver losing so many of these spaces and seeing them change in form. But I just wanted to recognize that space and the work that you all did for emerging artists and Vancouver through the projects you put on, but also through your programming. And we talked a little bit about these barriers that artists—early emerging artists face with artists-run centres and more traditional galleries. And I know you've done some programming with early emerging artists, such as with the WEDGE RESIDENCY at the Contemporary Art Gallery. And I just wanted to ask if you wanted to expand on that, and how that was as an experience facilitating early emerging artists in collaboration with a more traditional institution?
Asia Jong 23:57
Yeah, for sure. So WEDGE RESIDENCY started in 2021. As an unlikely pair, Ground Floor with the Contemporary Art Gallery, a very established and old institution in Vancouver. Yeah, we were asked by the CAG to do this project with them, which was huge for us. I mean, to work with a large institution and to get the acknowledgement that like, "Oh, there is, you know, investment in supporting early emerging artists in the city." Not just by us, but hopefully by, you know, larger institutions that previously felt impenetrable. So yeah, it was really important for us to, sort of, think about this, you know, these two sides—like one being a very DIY art collective, working with an institution that historically supported established mid-career and late-career artists. So yeah, I think the priority for us was this idea of dismantling, like, gatekeeping practices in the city, and being able to build connections between different artists in the city and cultural workers. And yeah, bringing these two sides of the spectrum together. Yeah, the first year that we did WEDGE, we were able to have it in the little back corner space of the gallery.
Vitória Monteiro 25:31
We call that the North Gallery. It's a ridiculous name. (laughs)
Asia Jong 25:39
And, yeah, we were able to provide the space for these artists, because it was COVID. And the space wasn't being utilized. So we were able to go through a jurying process and allocate the studio space to a number of artists to utilize and then have them create some sort of public facing output that was facilitated by the CAG. In the second year, it was more of a research based residency, because the CAG was utilizing the space again, so we had to make it a digital residency. So it was more centered around research practices. But yeah, I think for us, especially throughout the entire process, we wanted artists to be able to have access to talk to people who are curators in the community, or people that have had years of experience or artists that have influenced, you know, these early emerging artists, in their practices. Like, I think it was just a great way to sort of start to introduce new people, and surely, like, build connections within the community that could potentially lead to other sorts of outcomes. And in their second year, especially, we really prioritize the idea of mentorship, and having artists choose people that they wanted to work with, and do studio visits with. And support them throughout their practice in the ways that they needed it, whether that be in research or more material way. But yeah, it was really great to see all these residents come out of the program, because then we saw, you know, the next year, like the residents, you know, doing residencies at like Deer Lake, or James Black Gallery, or Burrard Arts Foundation, or Griffin Art Projects, or Artspeak and, you know, so many other places. And that's the same with Ground Floor too. Like as a space that people had their first shows, like, to now see those artists get nominated for the Sobey, for example, like is pretty crazy, like. And I feel like so... I just feel so happy that we were able to like provide that space for artists to be able to really explore and have time and resources to dedicate to their practices. So yeah, I felt very grateful for the entire experience.
Kathy Feng 28:11
That's amazing. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And it's so great to hear about, you know, we talked about COVID and how the pandemic has really shifted things. But also it's beautiful to hear how those—it's bittersweet, but how the pandemic had also opened up an opportunity for you to do programming in ways that weren't available before. Yeah, and I guess just shifting gears a little bit, talking about access and who gets to hold knowledge, I wanted to ask you veto, because having gone to school together—and I talk about that all the time—I was really privileged to see how your practice and the focus of your work has shifted and evolved over time. And one of your main priorities is access, and looking at how knowledge is kept in the archive or anti-archive, as you call it. But yeah, I guess I wanted to ask you about expanding on your practice and how those modes of thinking have influenced your work.
Vitória Monteiro 29:20
Yeah. Yeah, I think… So thinking about archives and anti-archive. When we were in school together, I think the second half of art school, third and fourth year, I was really starting to reckon with the fact—whether I knew it sort of consciously or not—that I was disabled. And, I wasn't really feeling supported by the school and that and my profs in that. And I mean, they have supported me in other ways, and so I want to just preface with that. That being said, I started to work with paper and, and texts. And in short, I would collect texts, primarily academic texts, and blend them up and make paper out of them, and then give them as my projects back to the profs. I saw that as sort of a humorous, sort of push back, to my educational experience. I thought, if you aren't going to support me, I'm going to take the thing that legitimizes this space, and that is academic text and high barrier language. And I'm going to rip that up into little shreds. And I'm going to make it illegible, and I'm going to make it... I'm just going to break it down. And I'm going to give it back to you and you're going to give me a grade. And I think that started this sort of reckoning for myself of how I saw myself as a learner within that space. And it felt, sort of, I don't know, it was an exploration. This process of collecting these texts, blending them down, mixing them with, like other things, other types of texts, like my diary—who calls them diary? My journal, my bullet journal—or shopping lists, or books that I love, or recipes. Just, I was thinking about knowledge and ways to take different things that I knew, and put them together. Because I think, you know, institutional and university learning, everything's really in a box. You know, you have the biology department and visual art and everything. It's built for things to exist in containers. And that is, you know, Western knowledge. We see something, we put it in a box. That's how we understand it, it's there. Other things are, you know—it's all sort of fragmented. And so I guess, yeah, my early practice was really thinking about ways of breaking down those barriers, mushing everything together, and then making them inaccessible to everybody. (laughs) I don't think that's necessarily the solution to knowledge. I think a lot of it was really satirical, because I think inaccessible, in itself, like knowledge that's not accessible in itself—that's... I don't think that my work is, like, particularly speaking to that in a helpful way. But I guess just in a comedic way, I was just like, "I'm doing this, I'm doing this thing."
And I would later find out that I am autistic. So that also, there was just a lot of the like, sort of self, sort of, labels that came up from that time. And, and discovery. And this was a beginning of me starting to think about access. And what that means for me as a student, later to be me as an artist, later to be me as a cultural worker. I think it really all started in those last two years, whether yeah, like I said, I realized or not, I can now look back and sort of trace this through line of realizing I wasn't supported, or I didn't feel supported, I didn't feel like I had. I mean, there was the Centre of Accessible Learning that SFU had that I was registered in. But I found out that sometimes my profs would receive them and just not read them. Or I would ask for certain accommodations and be met with resistance, or as if I was slacking off when that wasn't the case. I wanted to drop out in second year, because I was like, I can't do this without medication. So those early years really taught me how to self advocate, which I think is a skill that really has translated to where I am now—did I answer your question?
Kathy Feng 33:44
Yes, yes. That's actually a great segue into my second question for you, which is about your community practice. So obviously, your artistic practice and your community practice is very much overlapping. Can you elaborate more on that, such as the workshops that you facilitated, and also your work on the grant gallery board?
Vitória Monteiro 34:07
Totally. Yeah, I think over the past year and a half, two years, I've really done a lot of learning. It really kind of started—or the catalysts of this trajectory in my professional life, or in my work at galleries started when I attended a series of workshops with artist Carmen Papalia, and it was called Beyond The Checklist. I learned a lot about what it means to be disabled in the arts. A lot of language, it was just a major download and awakening for me, that really grounded me for months and I know years to come, because I realized that I have an opportunity to overlap, to advocate the way that I did for myself at school, but in these art spaces. I mean, yeah, and that has looked, sort of, a number of ways. You talked about workshops, and one of the things I do at CAG is facilitate these workshops called Open Studio, where I work with emerging artists in the city and have them respond to a show and do a sort of a hands on art-making activity for the public. And one of the seasons previously—or recently, I should say—I was the artist, instead of the facilitator. I was in a unique position where I could respond to the gallery because I was the studio assistant for the artist showing, who is Kathy Slade. And so I realized that I had an opportunity to create a space in a, you know, a gallery that I worked at, resources I was very familiar with, spaces that I was really familiar with. And I was able to do my own thing. And I think that sort of set the tone for realizing I have agency in this space. I am able to do things that are made for my brain, that are considering other people's sort of access needs really intentionally. And so I did this low-sensory workshop that was about frottage, and we would—we learned about, sort of, frottage as an art technique. But I did the lights, and I added dampers on all of them. And I had a carpet and these like lamps everywhere, and encourage people to bring headphones if they wanted to. I bought all these stim toys for everybody. Because I was thinking, how can I make this space accessible for myself? And starting there, and then I think that's a big—that's yeah, how it started. Like, how can I make these spaces feel good for me, therefore, hopefully good for other people who have maybe similar brains as me or who also have sort of sensory needs.
And yeah, I think that I learned a lot through that workshop. And it really excited me because I thought—I realized, like, this is something I can do in other places, and that they're meaningful. And I got really nice feedback from them as well, that leads to sort of my work with grunt. So I, the, sort of, initial download happened when I got to attend those workshops with Carmen. And then I got put in contact with grunt gallery, and worked with Kay Slater and Keimi Nakashima-Ochoa, both of them who are doing really—I think people would like to call it radical, but it's, I think, really basic, or like, should be standard—sort of, accessibility practices in their programming. And working with them, and being mentored by both of them, has really shaped the way that I approach my work. Both like the day to day at CAG in the office upstairs, and also my approach to hosting people and the emerging artists that I work with for Open Studio. Yeah, so that led to me being a board member, which really was amazing, because, obviously, I had a lot of the context of how I thought things were run in the city came from CAG, and places similar to CAG. And to witness the way that things are run in grunt—obviously, they're very different spaces, and not everywhere can be grunt, and that's okay, also. But I really was moved and enriched and delighted by how much they centre care, and the work that they do, and how that really starts with the care of the staff and the care of each other. Because I think, when you care for the person next to you, it makes, you know, trust happen—or a certain level of trust, it doesn't mean that like your workplace is your family because I feel like some boundaries there are also important. But when you do trust your workplace to a certain extent, that makes all the difference. So yeah.
Another workshop I did was also for low-sensory makers, through the Audain, SFU galleries. I co-ran actually with Keimi. And we did together, and it was for low-sensory makers. And again, I was thinking about, "How can I make the space accessible and interesting and exciting for myself?" And other time I was, like, super into playing Stardew Valley on my Switch, which is portable. And I was like let's have this workshop be centered around people's special interests or hobbies. And how can we lean into things that don't necessarily make us money or things that are sort of aesthetically pleasing, and, and come together and do things that bring us joy within these spaces that are really aesthetics-first. Like, it wasn't inside a gallery, but it was associated. How can we bring joy into these spaces? I think that was sort of the first iteration of me thinking about joy at galleries, and softness and care. And so we invited people to bring whatever sort of hobby they were doing—knitting, games, painting, drawing, etc. And that, yeah, that started this—or it was just a continuation of this exploration that I've been having as a facilitator. And it is now reached the third level, where I have the opportunity, Keimi and Kay have reached out to me to work on two workshops with them at grunt gallery around stim toys. And how we can see stim toys as companions, and how we can see stimming in the office as these like important acts of resistance within these spaces. Because I, I remember, when I started working in an office feeling like I had to really filter myself and, sort of, mask really heavily. And yeah, a lot of filtering happened, and I've been sort of easing out of that. And this workshop is going to be for other cultural workers. And the goal is to a explore what stimming is. Everybody stims, it's not just something that like neurodivergent people do, or autistic people do, like, it is everybody. Like, if you dance when you're happy, that's stimming. If you, you know, bite your nails, that's stimming, playing with your hair—like these releases, these very human and bodily things that we do to release anxiety or to self-soothe, or self-regulate, are all very human and normal and important things. And so the workshop is going to introduce that as an offering for other cultural workers to lean into that. We're also going to make little toys that they can bring to work, or give to a friend or whatever. And talk about this, yeah, the history of stimming—or the history of the stress ball is what I'm going to, I think, centre. Because everyone knows what a stress ball is. And, yeah, I'm really finding this, sort of, I want to say niche, but it's no. I'm trying not to be like "this is just a small little fragment in this community that exists." Like, this is something that everybody does. And I guess I'm just trying to, like, carve out a space where we can just, like, name it and relax and be human, and care for each other. So it's really exciting. I feel comforted in this sort of trajectory that I've been... On this path that I've been on. I feel really supported by grunt. And paying me to do work like this, it feels kind of, on one hand, part of my brain is like, "This is so silly, like they are giving me you know, Canadian dollars to talk about play," but at the same time—
Asia Jong 42:59
It's okay, it's Canadian dollars.
Vitória Monteiro 43:01
(Laughs) That's right. If it was USD then they'd be out of their mind.
Kathy Feng 43:04
Doesn't mean much.
Vitória Monteiro 43:05
No kidding. But that they are centering these experiences and backing them and offering them to the community. And I'm not trying to show up as an expert at all. I'm trying to learn with others. I'm trying to talk about these experiences that we all have and navigate this field that is very cold.
(background clapping)
Oh, there's people clapping, that's the type of stim, they're clapping. That's perfect. Yeah, I feel really excited and honoured and privileged to be able to have this opportunity to do this thing that interests me, and I hope will maybe leave a little impact other people that work in spaces. And that we can co-learn and share and acknowledge that these spaces are difficult. And also, we can experience joy within them. That is an act of resistance and resilience, and it's important. So yeah.
Kathy Feng 43:45
Thank you. That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing, both of you, your experience and your work. And I am hearing a lot centres around care and joy, and I think that is so beautiful, and something that we should focus on more, honestly. Yeah, both of you have done work that helps platform emerging artists to find ways of accessing art outside of the traditional institution. I guess I just wanted to expand on that and also talk about how you bring accessibility into the institutional world.
Vitória Monteiro 44:41
Yeah. I think that a lot of things that institutions will face, and people who are experiencing any sort of marginalization who work in this field. I think there's a big surge of EDI work happening over the past few years. And I think what I hope to see, and am working towards myself in, like, the ways that I'm inviting people into this space. Like where possible, who am I inviting into the space? And what opportunities can I provide them? And payment can I provide them? What I've been—and again, things I've learned from grunt and from Carmen and from other, sort of, leaders that work in Disability Justice in Vancouver is, what can I bring to other spaces that I've learned and sort of model these practices? So, I think an example is today, when we all did visual descriptions. And thinking about ways that we can bring in these small things that we learn into other spaces. That sort of accessibility doesn't have to be this—I mean, deep change is necessary, but what are small things that we can bring into spaces that model more accessible ways of being? And so things like image descriptions, alt text, descriptive audio guides, transcripts, captions. We just had a show open at the gallery, and there was no captions on it. And so I had a conversation with the curator, I'm like, "You know, this would be great if we could do that. And let's do that." And so we made it happen, and now we have captions. And that makes the world of the difference of who can access this type of art. And, yeah, I think small things like that has been something that I've been leaning into, and makes a really big difference. And, I also think, when you add things, those sort of accessible points, it also softens up a gallery. Like this isn't just a space for people who have great vision, and that are hearing, and that are of a certain class or whatever. Like this is for people—we have multilingual audio guides, like accessibility is not just for English speakers, or, you know, like these different things that a space can do to make the gallery feel more inviting and welcoming. And that this is not just for a certain group of people. That's both like a structural level or like, in a programming way, but also in marketing and online. So yeah, I've done a lot of learning of, like, what that looks like over the past year, and I'm excited to continue learning, but yeah, those are my thoughts.
Kathy Feng 44:41
Thank you. Yeah, and do you have any advice for emerging artists or those who are coming out of art school?
Asia Jong 47:23
Um, I mean, yeah, I feel like, it is such a daunting experience to try and navigate, like, the art community in Vancouver, and art community in general. I feel like now more than ever, we should be supporting the emerging artists and initiatives that are happening. And a lot of people don't know where to start. So I think my advice is just to be present if you can. Like go to openings, go to workshops, attend free events, go to performances. Maybe, like, connect with the people that are around, because people are interested in chatting and making connections with, like, new folks. That was like the beautiful thing about Ground Floor, because I got to meet so many artists, and those people came to be the most significant people in my life. And I think in particular, like, a lot of opportunities came about because we were really actively trying to just be a physical presence and assert ourselves as human beings that exists in the community in this space. And I think another huge thing for me was finding people that will be able to provide those little access points, and be able to give you resources, or, like, help you edit, you know, a grant or something like that. Because I think people are really hesitant to ask for help, or maybe hesitant to ask for resources. But a lot of the time, people want to be able to share that knowledge. And I want to be able to share that knowledge, and provide that to people who want to be able to further their practices. So yeah, to reiterate again—if anybody wanted some advice, like, I of course, would be more than happy to, you know, share those those resources that I do have or know about in the city. And yeah, like with the Ground Floor WEDGE applications, we made sure that we had a list of resources. Like places to look for grants, whether it be with the British Columbia Arts Council, or the Canada Council or even Vancouver small community projects and stuff like that. You know, there are little pockets of money that you can find, or different residencies that you can apply for that can always help get your foot in the door. So I think really just being present and asking for help, or trying to make connections with people really goes a long way.
Kathy Feng 50:06
Thank you. I'm making a little heart, a hand heart.
Vitória Monteiro 50:11
Um, I, maybe I would say ditto. (laughs)
Kathy Feng 50:17
Perfect. Okay, and just another general question, opening it up to you folks: do you have any upcoming projects or anything that you're working on that excites you, or that you want to share? Like personal projects, personal curatorial work? Upcoming shows that a gallery?
Vitória Monteiro 50:36
Felt pointed.
Kathy Feng 50:37
It was.
Vitória Monteiro 50:38
I know. Okay, sure, I can start. I mean, the most recent thing, or the most upcoming thing is this workshop that I'm hosting with grunt, it is a two-part workshop. So part one will be for cultural workers, and thinking about reimagining office spaces, to centre care and joy, and stimming. And learning about that. But then there's going to be a part two in the new year for the public. So you can look out for that. And there's going to be similar vibes just not so centered around office culture, but day-to-day. Stimming in the day-to-day and joy, etc. And care. And I'm really excited for that. And, yeah, next year, I mean, August of next year, I have a duo show at Artspeak, with artist Lan “Florence” Yee, who's a Toronto-based artist, who I'm really excited to show with. And that's being curated by the dirty dishes collective that are based in Victoria. And yeah, that's gonna be really cool. Look out for that. Whoo.
Asia Jong 51:48
Yeah, I guess, the one upcoming project that I'm excited to share is, next year I will be curating a project at the Dr. Sun Yat-Sen Garden, in both the public and the private park. It's—the theme of the exhibition is about the contemporary condition of love. And I am working with Cat [Catherine de Montreuil] from UNIT/PITT, it will be part of UNIT/PITT's programming hosted by the garden. And so I'm really excited for that. It'll be work that's all in the garden, so you can navigate the garden and walk through it, and encounter artworks. So yeah, that's what I'm working on. And then apart from that, I've been playing Zelda—
Vitória Monteiro 52:40
Me too! Tears of the Kingdom?
Asia Jong 52:42
Yeah.
Vitória Monteiro 52:43
Stop it, every fucking night of my life I'm playing that, oh my god!
Kathy Feng 52:48
Yes!
Vitória Monteiro 52:50
Oh my god, how far are you in?
Asia Jong 52:52
Oh, I just started.
Vitória Monteiro 52:53
Oh, my God. This is my first Zelda game ever.
Asia Jong 52:56
What?
Vitória Monteiro 52:57
Yeah.
Asia Jong 52:57
Oh my god. Well, I am so excited for you.
Vitória Monteiro 53:01
I'm loving it.
Asia Jong 53:02
You're about to strap in for a wild ride.
Vitória Monteiro 53:05
I think I played over 100 hours now.
Asia Jong 53:07
Oh!
Vitória Monteiro 53:07
Being honest and vulnerable with you. I'm nowhere near the end. Nowhere near. I get so distracted, I'm like, "Oh, a plant here. Oh, a monster there. Guess, I'm gonna—I'm going for a walk."
Kathy Feng 53:19
(laughs) I feel so left out now. You've been trying to get me on Zelda for a bit. Okay.
Asia Jong 53:23
Oh, you got to get in.
Vitória Monteiro 53:24
You just, like, really... Talked to my heart there. I was not expecting that.
Kathy Feng 53:31
Our next interview, we will reconvene and we'll just talk about Zelda because I'll be on.
Vitória Monteiro 53:35
Yes.
Kathy Feng 53:36
Yes okay, check!
Vitória Monteiro 53:39
That's so epic.
Kathy Feng 53:40
Oh, that's so exciting. Like both projects and also personal Zelda endeavours.
Asia Jong 53:46
There's a lot to do in that world.
Vitória Monteiro 53:48
I am booked and busy, let me tell you. (laughs)
Kathy Feng 53:53
Oh, amazing. Okay, is there anything that you would like to add? Or—thank you so much for sharing today, and all the vulnerability and also knowledge that you're sharing with everybody, with all our listeners.
Asia Jong 54:09
Thank you so much for having me. And yeah, for having this conversation Veto. It's been so nice to hear more about your projects. Yeah, super excited for this workshop.
Vitória Monteiro 54:20
Yeah, see you there.
Asia Jong 54:21
And yeah.
Vitória Monteiro 54:24
Yeah, I know. Thank you, everybody. It's been nice. I appreciate opportunities to have sort of, like, loose and flowing conversations like this. And yeah, and to share space and to be able to share these experiences. It's cool. It's special and it's important.
Kathy Feng 54:44
Thank you so much.
[theme music]
Kathy Feng 54:50
Below the Radar is a knowledge democracy podcast created by SFU’s Vancity Office of Community Engagement. Thanks for listening to our episode with Asia Jong and Vitória Monteiro. Head to the show notes to learn more about their work, and to keep up to date with their upcoming projects.
Tune in next week for another episode of our See How We Run! Mini-series. Don’t forget to subscribe to our show on your podcast listening app of choice, and we’ll catch you next time on Below the Radar.