Below the Radar Transcript
Episode 227: See How We Run! Conversations with Arts and Cultural Workers — with Julia Aoki, Kathy Feng, and Samantha Walters
Speakers: Samantha Walters, Julia Aoki, Kathy Feng
[Theme music]
Samantha Walters 0:07
Hello listeners, welcome to See How We Run! Conversations with arts and cultural workers. This is a special Below the Radar series hosted by…
Julia Aoki 0:15
Julia Aoki,
Kathy Feng 0:17
Kathy Feng,
Samantha Walters 0:18
and Samantha Walters. See How We Run! is a mini series looking at local arts collectives and organizations, highlighting conversations about creation, space making, accessibility and self determination within the framework of Vancouver's cityscape. These episodes are recorded on the unceded territories of the Musqueam, Squamish, and Tsleil-Waututh nations.
[Theme music fades]
Julia Aoki 0:43
Hello, welcome to the first episode of See How We Run! conversations with arts and cultural workers. My name is Julia Aoki, and I'm here with my co hosts, Kathy Feng and Samantha Walters.
Kathy Feng 0:55
Hi!
Samantha Walters 0:56
Hello.
Julia Aoki 0:57
So our voices may be familiar to our audience because we've been around the podcast, we've worked on the podcasts. But I thought that we could start by introducing ourselves, who we are in the office and what our practices are outside of the office. And I can start. So my name is Julia Aoki. I am a program manager at the Vancity Office of Community Engagement. I've been with the office for a few months now, over half a year. Prior to that I was with Megaphone Magazine as the executive director and I've worked with a number of artist-run centres in the past as well. I was with Vivo Media Arts Centre. I've been on the board of 221A artist-run centre and Or Gallery, Access. And prior to that I was the general manager of the Powell Street Festival a number of years ago.
Kathy Feng 1:50
Hi, my name is Kathy and I am a research assistant at the Vancity Office of Community Engagement. I've been working with the office for coming up to four years at this point. I started right before the pandemic when I was still in school. I majored in visual arts at the School for the Contemporary Arts at SFU. And outside of my work at the office, I am also an emerging interdisciplinary artist. And my artistic practice is very much informed by being an immigrant. I was born in Guangzhou, China, and immigrated to Vancouver when I was four. So really thinking through space relations, and also interpersonal, and community relations through that lens.
Samantha Walters 2:40
Hi, I'm Sam, I am the Program Assistant here at SFU's Vancity Office of Community Engagement. And I'm also a recent graduate of the School for the Contemporary Arts except I studied theatre performance. I'm also currently an interdisciplinary artist in the city, emerging as well. I'm really interested in how theatre companies and performance companies organise themselves. And my arts practice is also concerned with space and power relations as well.
Kathy Feng 3:09
So for our series, we have all done our individual interviews, and I wanted to start off by having us all introduce our guests, and also talk about some of the questions and ideas around arts and cultural production that informed our conversations.
Julia Aoki 3:26
So I've been thinking about artist-run centres and artists-run-culture for some time. During my time as a graduate student at SFU, I was very interested in the history of artist-run centres, and particularly around this kind of central tension that they negotiate, which I think applies to other cultural spaces as well. Artist-run centres in my experience are sites for imagining alterity, for difference, for exercising collective forms of organization. And, you know, historically they were sort of, they emerged as spaces of distinction from public museums and private galleries. And, you know, discursively also they've— there's language around them being kind of radical spaces, spaces of radical otherness. But what is interesting to me is that they're also these sort of coherent institutional forms that have been recognized and legitimised through their state relations, through funding relationships, through reporting requirements to funders, and to the government if they're charities or nonprofit associations, and through the organisational structure, so there's this kind of inherent tension for— this is true of other organizations, I'm sure but cultural organizations that are trying to realise something different. Trying to, you know, do decolonial work, trying to work in a non hierarchical way, in an accessible way. And so in different times in my life, I've been very interested in this tension. And for this series in particular, I decided to explore that through two interviews, one with Demi London and Moroti George of Gallery Gachet. And one with Cait Hurley and Sarah Common from Hives for Humanity. So Gallery Gachet is a gallery that's located in the Downtown Eastside. They have a long history of doing work that is centred around accessibility to the community here. And that's partly through kind of their regular exhibition programming, but sort of accessible drop in programming as well. Yeah, so they've been grappling for a long time with, you know, what is the appropriate way of creating space for peer representation and self determination? And how do you do that in a way that is supportive. The other conversation is with Hives for Humanity, which is a little bit outside of the framework of the conversation, because it is an apicultural organization, they, they have apiaries that they run throughout the city, and they have programs that involve peers, again, largely from the Downtown Eastside, sort of on a social enterprise model. But again, they've been kind of working against the imposed infrastructure of nonprofits and charities, trying to find ways to, again, sort of make their work more porous with the community, create more space for self determination. And how do you do that, again, in a meaningful way, that isn't just sort of a matter of tokenizing individuals, but you know, providing adequate support for whatever way you're offering the community to engage. And so I find them both really interesting organizations for exploring that kind of central tension. And I'm really excited for people to hear it.
Samantha Walters 6:50
Yeah, so I spoke to Caitlin Jones and Alen Dominguez about the Backstage Spaces report from Progress Lab 1422. And so Progress Lab 1422 is a theatre interdisciplinary arts space in the eastside of Vancouver, sort of between Clark and Commercial, it's on William Street, 1422, which is where the number in the name comes from. But essentially, there are about eight companies who work out of there full time, or eight or nine, maybe even, but just to shout them all out quickly. It's like Company 605, Electric Company Theatre, the Frank Theatre, Neworld, Playwrights Theatre Centre, rice & beans, Rumble, Tara Cheyenne Performance, Theatre Conspiracy, like if you're in performance in the city, you know, or have worked with multiple of these organizations. It’s a really important space for theatre creation, interdisciplinary arts creation, mostly performance, in the city. And Alen is the managing director at Neworld Theatre, which is one of the resident companies there. Caitlin is a longtime arts consultant, curator, producer, she's worked at many different places. And she was helping C-Space, which is the board that runs Progress Lab, right, this report called Backstage Spaces, essentially highlighting the needs of a space like Progress Lab, when it comes to essentially affording and running its space, we get into a lot of tax talk and these sort of regulatory things. And Julia is also there in the conversation, helping out with her past experience with these kinds of organizations and running space. And yeah, I think it's... The report came out earlier this year. And I just think it was really important to highlight because it's so foundational to like how we produce arts in this city, given the affordability crisis, given the space crisis. And yeah, Alen and Caitlin have this report. Very well defined recommendations of how we can go about creating and maintaining art space and how organizations and companies can continue to do what they're doing. Having a city that essentially has art and performance still. But yeah, I also have a very personal connection to the space. I feel like I'm— Kathy and I actually both— At separate times, we were both interns for Playwrights Theatre Centre. And then I continued to work there for a while. Rumble Theatre produced my first ever professional production in their Tremors festival there, which was at Progress Lab, so I got to sort of use the space for a while and perform there. And they're just it... this space is just so important.
Kathy Feng 9:24
Yeah. And for me, I was really thinking about just from my personal experience of being a recent graduate of art school and also an emerging artist. And spaces that are accessible to emerging artists and spaces that aren't. And also just the value of community building for emerging artists and ways that we can support each other. So I brought on two guests, and one of them is Asia Jong, who is a curator, arts facilitator and cultural worker. And she was a part of Ground Floor Art Centre. And Ground Floor Art Centre is an artist-run collective whose mandate is to platform and give spaces to early emerging artists. And for a while they had a space on Gore Street, right until the pandemic. And they've also done partnerships with the Contemporary Art Gallery to create the wedge residency, which was a residency program that allowed for early emerging artists to be mentored and also work within a larger institution. And I also talked to Vitória Monteiro, who is an interdisciplinary artist and cultural worker. They work as the acting curator of learning and engagement at the Contemporary Art Gallery. And they're also on the board of Grunt Gallery. And we actually went to school together, we were in the same cohort in visual art, and we graduated together. So that was really, really great to see all the really cool stuff that they're working on. So their practice has a lot to do with the archive or anti-archive, as they call it. And also looking at accessibility within traditional institutional spaces. So I really wanted to bring these two incredible people in conversation together to talk about these ideas of making spaces for emerging artists, and the value of that and the work and care that goes into that and how important it is for emerging artists. So yeah, I'm excited for people to hear that conversation, but also, for that conversation to be a starting point for other people to build off of, because I think that is, you know, the ethos of it. Yeah.
Julia Aoki 11:48
So why is it called See How We Run!
Samantha Walters 11:51
We also think it's really important that you know there's an exclamation point in the title.
Kathy Feng 11:55
And also, every time I say, see how we run, I am also doing the motion of a running stick figure. And I think that is also important
Samantha Walters 12:02
Hold that in your mind.
Kathy Feng 12:05
Visual imagery. Well, throughout all of our conversations, we— there is an underlining thread about organisational structure and like how spaces run to be very blunt. I'm also thinking about when we have the title, when we hear this title, See How We Run, you know, that show from the 2000s, or whatever, How It's Made. I just— I think of that, and its like, eye into this, the modes of production. But I don't know where I'm going with this.
Julia Aoki 12:42
It's sort of, it's like it's demystifying something.
Kathy Feng 12:45
Yeah.
Julia Aoki 12:47
For ourselves, and hopefully, for people who are listening?
Kathy Feng 12:50
Yeah.
Julia Aoki 12:51
To think— because, I mean, it seems very obvious what an organization is, what it's offering, and possibly even how it operates. But anytime you start to investigate an organization, you start to see the complex relationships behind it. And that's very interesting to me, because in a lot of ways, that's where, you know, your loftier, bigger ideals, your ethics, your kind of vision for an organization or community is realised and is confronted with all kinds of practical challenges. And, you know, especially in a climate where operating a space is incredibly financially onerous, you know, there's a lot of barriers to acquiring space and operating space. I think it can be really useful to take a closer look and you know, start to offer some insight into how to do that in Vancouver.
Samantha Walters 13:47
Yeah, yeah, I really like the term demystifying for that because I also think with arts and cultural production, if you're not in that industry, it's not necessarily something that you would think about, I guess… just our day to day art processes are very complicated sometimes and are made overly complicated by having to deal with various levels of government and having to be able to afford production and—
Kathy Feng 14:12
Especially for like DIY spaces, which I spoke about with Asia, it's so, so difficult. And that was also a part of other conversations with Demi as well. It's, that's one of the most difficult things just to get the funding, but also to have the energy and like put in, the capacity to put in all the work because there's a lot of work that goes behind it, that is not often seen.
Julia Aoki 14:41
I also find it really interesting, I think there's, you know, often very valid, vigorous critiques of institutions that are incredibly important. And I don't want to be an institutional apologist. But I do know from being inside them that you know, all organizations are going to be some kind of combination of progressive, regressive maintaining the status quo. And, you know, it can be more of one or the other. By looking at the elements that kind of make it such, you have more opportunity to kind of pull towards something more in line with your ideals. This is something I actually thought a lot about, as I kind of cut my teeth at the Powell Street Festival, a Japanese Canadian cultural festival that operates in what, you know, was considered the former Japan town, is very much in the heart of the, what is known today as the Downtown Eastside. And as I start to look more and more in that history, it gave me a sense of, again, the sort of complex relationships, but how much of that, the people that are involved in that history offer something. Every single thread that you pull out within an organization offers an insight into a very complex history, be it you know, the longer history of Japanese Canadian internment, of course, but also the, you know, in the 70s movements, progressive movements towards redress, but also how that dovetailed with wider, wider civil rights movements, that there were actually individuals or one individual in particular, who was involved with the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee in the southern states, who came back and was sort of bringing some of those ideals back to the institution, you know, just sort of thinking about, yeah, all of those, like, very complex... All of the complex relationships that make up an institution, I think, is is quite fascinating.
Samantha Walters 16:37
Yeah. And the sort of line that... Arts and culture organizations are often out of progressive movements and moments, and then you have to reckon with becoming an institution and becoming sort of this historicized thing as well. And you have to have a board even and then there's a certain conservatism to that, because, and then we get into funding and like, I think a lot of arts leaders talk about this kind of contradiction we find ourselves in where it's— our values are in one place, but we're getting a lot of funding from organizations that maybe don't represent those values. And how do we work with that? How do we collaborate through that, like, you're not going to reject $20,000 because you need that money to work even if you're sort of trying to platform decolonial ideas that are inherently sort of anti institutional. Yeah. And I think all of our conversations are very, I mean, they're all people that work in Vancouver, but they're all super Vancouver based conversations as well.
Kathy Feng 17:31
Yeah, yeah. And I feel like all of our conversations are very much grounded within the community of arts and cultural workers as well. And just to hear that, I think, from different aspects and different spaces within the community, I think is so special. To bring those conversations together into this mini series, because it also reflects each of our positionings from within the office, but also within our own communities and our own practices. So yeah.
[Theme music]
Samantha Walters 18:08
Below the Radar is a knowledge democracy podcast created by SFU’s Vancity Office of Community Engagement. Thanks for listening to our introductory episode with SFU VOCE staff Julia Aoki, Kathy Feng, and Samantha Walters.
Tune in next week for the second episode of our See How We Run! mini-series where we’ll be talking with Neworld Theatre’s managing director Alen Dominguez and consultant Caitlin Jones about Progress Lab 1422’s Backstage Spaces report, which provides an understanding of the issues performance creation spaces face in terms of city zoning, property-tax, and other policies. Don’t forget to subscribe to our show on your podcast listening app of choice, and we’ll catch you next time on Below the Radar.
[Theme music fades]
Samantha Walters 18:56
See How We Run! See, See How We Run. See How We Run! See How We Run.
Kathy Feng 19:03
See How We Run!
Samantha Walters 19:05
Hello, listeners. Welcome to See How We Run. Con— See How We Run. See How We Run?
Kathy Feng 19:11
See How We Run!
Samantha Walters 19:12
See How We Run!
Kathy Feng 19:13
It's See How We Run!
Samantha Walters 19:14
See How We Run! See How We Run! Okay. Okay. Hello listeners, welcome to See How We Run. Conversations with arts and cultural workers. This is a—
Kathy Feng 19:28
I can hear your laugh!
Samantha Walters 19:29
I did it— I know. Because I did it, I did it and then I was like I went down I didn't go up.
[Theme music]