Below the Radar Transcript
Episode 100: Joy Johnson: SFU's New Prez
Speakers: Paige Smith, Am Johal, Joy Johnson
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Paige Smith 0:01
Hi everyone, I'm Paige Smith with Below the Radar, a knowledge democracy podcast. Below the Radar is created by SFU's Vancity Office of Community Engagement and is recorded on the territories of the Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh peoples. To mark the 100th episode of Below the Radar, we check in with Simon Fraser University's recently installed President and Vice Chancellor Joy Johnson. She chats with our host Am Johal about her vision for SFU and how the university is meeting the challenges of the COVID 19 pandemic. I hope you enjoy this episode.
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Am Johal 0:34
Hi there. Welcome to Below the Radar. We're very excited to be on episode 100. We never expected to be here and we are luckily joined by the newish president of SFU, Joy Johnson, who was installed at the very beginning of September. Thank you so much for joining us, Joy.
Joy Johnson 0:57
Thank you very much, Am. It's great to be here. And congratulations on your 100th episode. That's amazing.
Am Johal 1:04
Joy, so what a strange time to be coming in as president during a global pandemic. But if there's anyone sort of prepared for that in any way, I suppose it's you because you actually come from a health background yourself. And wondering if you can talk a little bit about, I guess, the challenge of post secondary education in terms of your conversations with other university presidents and the particular challenges to post secondary in this time? And at SFU?
Joy Johnson 1:33
Yeah, so it is a challenging time. There's no doubt about it. You know, last March, we at Simon Fraser University, pivoted to move our teaching online. And so I guess that would be challenge number one, right? Is finding new pedagogies, new ways to provide learning experiences for our students that are meaningful and meet the learning objectives. And you know, I have to say, at SFU, and I would say, you know, talking to presidents across this country, it really has been quite remarkable to see how quickly we were able to do that to move courses online, but also how effective it's been. Our enrollments have remained very strong at Simon Fraser University, but also, we see fairly strong enrollments in Canada, at least across the board. There certainly are some areas that are really challenging to teach and those are, you know, areas like chemistry, but I was talking to people in our dance program, you know, it's very hard to teach dance online. And so we are this January, moving some more classes on campus for some face to face, but always keeping the safety of our faculty, staff and students at the foreground. I'd say another challenge is mental health. And that's the mental health of our faculty, staff, and students. I think, most importantly, our students. You know, just imagine being a brand new student coming to university for the first time, and this is your experience, sitting at your parents kitchen table, basically, you know taking courses. And you know, so it's stressful, it's difficult. And we're seeing that play out in a variety of ways. And I would say, you know, one of the concerns I had, particularly as I started my presidency in September, people are tired. They're tired, because it's so intense doing this work virtually. But they're just tired, because they aren't having a lot of fun right now. It's, they're missing their friends, they're not able to have the outlets that they're used to having. So I am concerned, I think that's another big big challenge is mental health. And then maybe I'll just mention a third, there's so many, but let me mention a third. And the third really relates to equity. You know, we know the pandemic has shone a light on inequities in our society. But I think that gets carried into our institutions as well. And we really are, I think, needing to pay attention to the challenge of inclusion in a new way. And certainly social movements like Black Lives Matter have pushed us to also really think about the ways in which our institutions have racism embedded in them and what we need to do, you know, in that area, and that's not COVID specific, but COVID adds a challenge to that.
Am Johal 4:15
Joy, I had a chance to catch the installation ceremony online. It was a really emotional, exciting event. I'm wondering if you can just talk about that a little bit. What was going through your mind as you were installed? SFU hasn't had that many presidents, a fairly new university from 1965.
Joy Johnson 4:32
Yeah. So you know, in some ways, because of the pandemic, we couldn't do the big, you know, 1000s of people in convocation hall kind of installation, but I feel like it was very special. So for a few reasons. Number one, we did Indigenize the ceremony in a way that hadn't been Indigenized. So I have new ceremonial robes that were designed with our local First Nations symbols on them and that was very meaningful. We, at Simon Fraser University, give a nod to our Scottish heritage with pipes, but added Indigenous drumming, and that was incredible. But I would say for me, because of the pandemic, I couldn't be robed by, you know, in the normal way, I think usually it would be the chancellor or someone else would give me my rope to put on. But they needed people in my bubble to do that. And so I had my 84 year old mother do that, as well as my wife, Pam, and to have both of them on the stage with me in that very intimate, like, getting kind of dressed by the people who are really close to you, that was really meaningful. And then I think that third thing, another thing that really stood out for me for that day was Chris Lewis, our chancellor, who is a counselor with the Squamish nation. You know, in his remarks, he didn't just thank me, but he thanked my family for letting me do this work. And I thought that was very moving for me as well, I thought it was quite special to have that kind of recognition. And the other thing that Chris said, that I say to people on occasion, he said, “You might think that you work for Joy, as the President of SFU but I want to assure you that Joy Johnson works for you.” And that's a good reminder about the role of the President, that I work for this university. And it's something you know, that I continue to hold on to. It is important.
Am Johal 6:27
Now Joy, prior to becoming president, we were of course, Vice President Researcher at SFU. You had a long career at UBC. But prior to that you worked in health care. If I remember correctly, you're a public health nurse in Vanderhoof, I think, or am I close?
Joy Johnson 6:43
Yeah, you're in the vicinity. I actually, one of my very first jobs, Am, was as a nurse working in Burns Lake, British Columbia. And Burns Lake was a small hospital that I worked in, and they basically did everything from delivering babies to, you know, working in emergency because it was so small. And just to, you know, to be a part of this kind of community embedded hospital was really quite the experience, especially for a brand new nurse, I have to say.
Am Johal 7:09
Yeah, and for people who aren't familiar with your own research background, what were the kinds of things that you were doing in terms of your research work when you were in graduate school, and also as a professor?
Joy Johnson 7:20
Yeah, my biggest interest really was related to what gets referred to as the social determinants of health. And in particular, how certain social dynamics and the three frames I used a lot in my work were, how gender, other forms of diversity and place, where one lives, shapes one's health behavior, health outcomes. And so I was really interested in the fact, that you know, that our policies and practices didn't pay attention enough to these dynamics, we weren't tailoring our interventions to the degree they needed to be. And that one's possibilities for a healthful life really, were being shaped not by your physician, and whether you took your prescription but by these other forces. And I really think that's important to continue to be thinking about. And we see this playing out in the pandemic as well, in terms of who in particular, is most vulnerable. So, you know, that really, in particular, set me up to take on a role later on, after I worked as a professor and did this research, a lot of my work was related to drug use as well, beginning with tobacco use, because so interesting, for example, how gendered tobacco use is, and then marijuana use with teenagers, highly gendered again, in terms of the way girls and boys use marijuana, and then also place space, where you are all of those factors shaping these kinds of practices. And I did a project actually in the Downtown Eastside on crack cocaine use, in very early days looking at safer crack use, the first project in the Downtown Eastside in that area, where we only focused on women because they were last on the pipe, and also so incredibly vulnerable. So we wanted women focused intervention. But all of that work really set me up to be thinking more broadly about in particular gender, and I had the opportunity to apply and was successful in becoming the scientific director for the Institute of gender and health, then at the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, where I really continued to push in terms of helping us think particularly about gender and health outcomes.
Am Johal 9:29
You know, even prior to the pandemic happening, we were experiencing, you know, a lot of social polarization, the election of Donald Trump certainly amped that up. But you know, there's a lot of questions being asked of the university right now. But these kinds of worries about the social polarization, social inequality, and what the role of the university may be wondering how you think about these questions now, as a university president, you're certainly aware of them as a researcher given the areas that you work in, but as a president, when you think about the university as an institution, here, we have much more public universities than the states where there is a big culture of private universities, but as a kind of public servant, you know, what is the role of these places today, given the kinds of challenges around polarization that are out there and how they relate to democracy and democratic practices?
Joy Johnson 10:21
It is a big question. And it is one I'm thinking more and more about. So to begin with, you know, let's face it, universities are elitist, and often because of no fault of their own. Young people find themselves in circumstances where they don't even think they have an opportunity to go to university. And so who gets to go to university, people who really have been set up in particular ways to be encouraged to have these opportunities and have the assets to do so. So I think first and foremost, as we think about this polarization, we, as a public institution, need to think about how we can provide opportunities, pathways for particularly young people who might not be able to see themselves coming into a place like a university. And that's something you know, recently, for example, I'm so thrilled to see, we had a major gift to the University to help support equity deserving groups, to come into the university and get a full ride scholarship. So that's tuition, books, you know, rent all of that. And that's what we need to find more ways to kind of, you know, level the playing field. But the other thing around this whole thing is, we have to recognize that I do think we have a role to play in terms of trying to host and hold the difficult discussions about this polarization in our society, and be willing to really confront. I guess, you know, we need to hold a mirror up to ourselves, I guess, and to think about our own institutions, and how our own practices and policies might exclude people. But we also have to be able to host and hold conversations about inclusion and be prepared to listen, but also be prepared to change. And that's part, I see that across the university, I think that is very, very hard. And the best part of this work is done in partnership. And it's done in partnership with communities who want to work on issues together. You know, we've got a project right now at SFU, that Janet Webber is engaged in on anti-racism and with community members. And I think that kind of partnered work, where we bring some expertise, resources to the table, but we learned so much. So that kind of partnered work, I think, is something that we need to do more of, and as an institution, we need to realize, you know, that as much as we are holders of a lot of knowledge, there's so much more that we need to learn and so much more we can benefit from, from engaging in these discussions. You know, the other thing that maybe we won't go down this road too much, but we'll see where we go Am, and this is something I've thought about a lot is this idea of freedom of speech, academic freedom in the place of the university. And you know, are there limits to that? And how do you hold that tension around trying to have hard conversations, but also being very, very respectful about people's you know, about where they're sitting in their lives, but also making sure that we don't cross the line in terms of offenses related to human rights. So these are, again, really difficult conversations, I think, for us to be having, but we need to be thinking about them.
Am Johal 10:23
Yeah. During the provincial election, last year, there was an announcement that almost came out of nowhere, but not really, but it was a bit sudden of a new medical school out in Surrey. And I'm wondering how you're thinking that project through. I imagine this is a multi year project, setting up a medical school, it's a very complex thing to do. And I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about what your understanding of that is now?
Joy Johnson 13:49
Yeah, so for the past 10 years or so, Simon Fraser University off and on, had conversations about developing a medical program, and, you know, really had not been able to convince, you know, our programs get funded and approved by our provincial governments. And that, you know, really had not been able to make the case. So many of us were quite surprised when the New Democratic Party platform included a promise to establish a new medical program in British Columbia, in our province and at Simon Fraser University. I want to begin by saying, this is an amazing opportunity. There, you know, I really want to emphasize how infrequently we establish new medical programs, you know, it's kinda like not even once in a decade, do you have an opportunity in Canada, it's just not done, because it's expensive. And because there's quite a bit of saturation in this programming. So we're going to take this really seriously because there's an opportunity to be innovative, to push the envelope in medical education, which I think is incredible. The program we're talking about is a different kind of program. And that's been what we've talked about from the very beginning. That it is a generalist medical education program. And so what's interesting to me is to think about and this was an example that was given to me. So just bear with me, when you think about a family physician, a generalist, a primary care provider, they might see, I don't know, let's just say, on average of the 350 patients they might see, two might end up or three might end up in the hospital. But where do we train our physicians right now, for the most part, we train them in the hospital. And it just doesn't make any sense. When you think about it, like, for generalists, they need to be able to work in community in teams with others. I've had some great conversations with Roger Strasser, the previous and first dean of the Northern Ontario School of Medicine about their program, which really was a generalist program. So that's exciting to me to think about a new type of program that could actually kind of flip and really be community focused. The other thing that's really exciting is to think about working with our partners. And there's what's referred to as a health authority. So that's the Fraser Health Authority that really is responsible for delivery of health care. But in British Columbia, we also have a First Nations Health Authority, which is providing health care to our Indigenous First Nations. And this program will be in partnership with those two health authorities. So to think about how one might actually Indigenize a medical program, not just kind of an additional course, or whatever, but what would that mean. But the other piece that I'm particularly excited about, and that fits so well with SFU is to think about, at the very beginning, to go out and engage the community and to ask, what do you need in your medical professionals now, and how the community shapes expectations and values for our medical program. Now, that being said, you know, don't get me wrong, it's not as if we can just do anything, there are accreditation and certain things that, you know, expectations that we need to meet. But I think there is an opportunity to push the envelope here, and to think differently, and to think about recruiting students who really want to work in community. And that excites me. So early days, stay tuned, we are just having our first meeting with our partners next week. And we're going to have to really hit the ground running in the next few months to move this work forward. And it will take you know, the next three years, at least, to get a program established.
Am Johal 17:32
Really exciting, really interesting work. SFU's campuses are also in Burnaby and Vancouver. In Burnaby, one of the pieces that's been talked about for some time as the potential for a gondola. And it relates, I guess, in some ways to the student experience as well. But I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about SFU and its relationship to Burnaby. And the possibilities there, as you see, how the university can connect.
Joy Johnson 17:56
It's interesting, just for the listeners who don't know about our Burnaby Mountain Campus, it is literally on top of a mountain. You know, back in the day, people built universities thinking they should be away from the cities, right, like cloistered, you know, institutions. I think we've all realized there's way more to be gained by finding ways to embed our institutions in our cities and work in partnership. And, you know, in part it's on Burnaby Mountain. We've built a city around the university. We built the city so that we can have, you know, connectivity with our neighbors. But we still recognize their challenges being located, our campus being located up on Burnaby Mountain. In Vancouver, when it snows it's like the whole place stops and the buses that serve our university can't make it up the mountain. So we've got a lot of challenges there. But also, there are challenges because, you know, again, don't want to go down this road too far. But we have a pipeline being built very near our campus, and there's only one road of exit for the campus. So we're very interested in building a gondola. This is a people mover gondola I want you to imagine, and we've seen this in other cities around the world where we've seen very effective people movers. And this would be a game changer for our students, our students need to move across the three campuses, sometimes we do have some SkyTrain or a rapid transit between, you know, across the district, and this would link up and be able to help people move much more effectively. It's green technology as well, which is really exciting. So we are working right now with the city of Burnaby and others to make the case. We need to try and find funding from the provincial government as well as the federal government to make this happen. But it's fairly cheap as well. It would actually pay for itself in about five years or so, because it would release buses. It's great technology. So I think that's an example of a project where you need to work with the municipality and it would just provide a great bridge. But there are other areas you know, our cities really do value the role of the university. We are big employers, our students, you know, shop and use the restaurants, you know, the amenities in our cities. But we also have, you know, a brain trust, we have amazing researchers and students and staff who want to work to solve pressing issues together. And we've seen some great examples of our research community, working with municipalities Burnaby, Vancouver, Surrey, on issues to help them, you know, sort through anything from, you know, homelessness issues, to issues of addiction to issues of transportation. So I think that these links, I think, will become more and more important for universities, particularly public universities.
Am Johal 20:40
Yeah. And certainly in Vancouver, where SFU has had a longtime downtown presence, I think we're probably up to nine or ten buildings or something like that. How do you view SFU's relationship to the City of Vancouver?
Joy Johnson 20:52
Yeah, so it's interesting. I mean, I wasn't at SFU when the downtown presence was established. But I'm very cognizant of the fact that there was a lot of concern about, you know, the gentrification of the Downtown Eastside, in particular, about how this would affect the community. And there was a real commitment from the beginning, and you know this Am, to find ways to make sure our institution could continue to serve the community. And I've seen that play out in a really, I think, positive way. I'm really pleased that we have a large downtown presence in Vancouver, in part because, you know, some of our biggest challenges right now, socially, are challenges that really are embedded in our cities. And as you know, these are issues related to homelessness, you know, addiction issues, you know, related to work, life balance, issues related to transportation, all of these things are of deep concern to cities, but also to our research community and to the university. And there are so many ways that we can work together. And there again, there've been some great examples of incredible partnerships. And that's, I think, certainly in my research career, but as vice president researcher as well, at SFU. I think that the most meaningful work that we can do right is to do great research, but to realize that it can make a difference and that it is being used to solve pressing social issues. So I think the more we can be kind of hand in glove with our cities, as I said, the better.
Am Johal 22:34
Now Joy, as you know, better than most a university is a big complicated institution, there's so many demands made on a president. You've set out a few big ideas that you'd like to see movement on, you've talked about student experience as one area, oftentimes SFU does very well in its categories in rankings. And that's one area that could use some improvement on. You've also mentioned equity, diversity, inclusion, and also to move further on Indigenization of the campus. So first of all, around the student experience piece, as you've gone out and spoken to stakeholders, including students, what are some of your thoughts on how SFU could do a better job in the future related to that very, very important part of going to university?
Joy Johnson 23:20
Yeah. So I think first of all, you know, we all recognize that, you know, while great learning happens inside the classroom, some of the most important learning takes place outside of the classroom. And so to have a vibrant university community, but also great work integrated learning opportunities for our students, it's, I think, something we need to think about. And I do think the post pandemic, just thinking about the broader university campuses, and what we have to offer our students in terms of extracurricular activities and other supports is really important. SFU, for the most part, has been a commuter campus. But we also are building more and more residents on our Burnaby campus right now. So we'll have more and more students living in our university. And I think that will change university life, particularly on Burnaby Mountain. So I do think continuing to think about these other kinds of vibrant, meaningful educational experiences, so that students, so often the other thing that happens, Am, is that, you know, the co-op experience, the work integrated learning experience happens much later in your university tenure, in your undergraduate degree. But how can we get, you know, really great experiences early on, so that students feel you know, you come to university because you want to, I don't know, study, you know, biology, but you just end up with these, you know, you have to take your math and you're not into the real interesting content of biology, not until really third or fourth year sometimes. So, I think to think about our programming, to think about the way we support our students and to think about these additional areas are primary, but the other thing is to continue around the student experience to find ways to support our students. We're seeing more and more particularly around mental health, stress, etc, that we need to do more to wraparound services so that they feel well supported. So those are a few areas I think that we can work on. And don't get me wrong. I think actually, the gondola will be a huge game changer for our students, it'll create a vibrancy on our campus. Burnaby Mountain for sure, I think will become a destination in a different way. And yeah, so I really think that really will be incredible. Part of the reason I put a pin in student experience as a priority is, I think, as a university, we really need to remember that we are about our students, and they really need to be at the heart of our considerations, and really be foremost in our mind. Yes, we do great research. Yes, we do great community engagement. But we are an educational institution, and we need to make sure we're paying attention every day to the lives of our students. So that's part of the reason I've also really said that that needs to be a priority for all of us.
Am Johal 25:56
And around equity, diversity inclusion, I think it's so important that you've really put this on the table in a really high profile way. I think universities are very diverse in terms of staff, and students, and all those things. But I guess the higher you go up the hierarchy, the less diverse it is, to some degree as a person of color working at the university, I do notice when I'm in meetings with all white people besides me, and I can remember working at UBC in the 90s as well, when the word at that time was diversity. And I remember the more sort of conservative parts of the university people kind of rolling their eyes at that diversity stuff. And seeing you know, multiple decades go by and around equity, diversity inclusion, how do you see it landing down at the university or how to bring it forward in a way that can move the dial? And I guess one of the challenges that probably come up as well is that there are democratic practices, like hiring at a departmental level or union contracts and those types of things that are part of this structure of the university. I'm not saying that they're necessarily impediments, but there are structures and processes that take some time to unfold as well. And how you think about that from a senior level at the university.
Joy Johnson 27:11
Yeah, I totally agree with you that, you know, as you go up, and you see this across Canada, that we do not have, you know, a diverse leadership in the universities. And that's something that does concern me. It's interesting. I mean, you know, as, you know, white settler, you know, I'll be it a gay, white settler, I really recognize my privilege in all of this. But I also realize, I'm the only woman who's the president of a research intensive university in Western Canada right now. So there's still, if you look at the faces of university presidents across this country, you still see a lot of men, in particular white men. So yeah, we have work to do. And you know, and my observation is that we are self replicating within our hiring practices, and we think that we, you know, we will just replace ourselves, right. And we have learned that that is bias. No ifs, ands, or buts. And that language of fit is absolutely no longer appropriate for us that we do need to hire, to bring in different perspectives and be pushing ourselves. And not always hire based on experience, but being able to hire based on promise, because there are so many people, particularly people of colour, black individuals, Indigenous people who haven't been given the opportunity, if you've never given the opportunity, how are you going to get the experience for heaven's sake? So I am heartened, though, on maybe two grounds. Number one, in my first four months, I've been going across this university and talking about my priorities. And when I talk about equity, diversity and inclusion, everyone's getting it now. I haven't had anyone, they might be saying this behind my back, you know, but I haven't had anyone really challenged me and say, "Why are you focusing on that?" And certainly, the senior leadership team, on my executive, with the deans and others, everyone knows, this is the time we must act, we must figure out how we can move ourselves forward. And there are little signs of institutional opportunity to move forward. In the last collective agreement with the Faculty Association. This is the collective agreement that governs the processes, the pay, they etc. The Faculty Association bargained that all hiring committees would get unconscious bias training. So you know, that's fantastic. We can criticize unconscious bias training till the cows come home kind of thing. But that's an important step. It's one step, there's more to be done. And training doesn't necessarily mean you'll have the outcomes. But I'm also seeing across the university people hiring experts in EDI, embedding this work in their faculties. It's going to be a culture change for us. So I think I have a role to play. I think tone on top is important to talk about the issue, to shine light on it, to talk about expectations, but it is about all of us leaning in, and not asking our equity deserving colleagues to carry that load anymore because they've been carrying it long enough. And the burden of that load, I see that every day that it shouldn't be up to the woman in the room, the person of colour in the room, the Indigenous person to say, not anymore, you know, like, we all of us have to figure out how we get together change the dial here, and I see some signs in that changing at SFU. But don't get me wrong, we got a ways to go. And that's something I'm excited about, I do think we can do this work. But I keep saying this will not be quick, and this will not be easy. And I've hit some roadblocks, and I've made mistakes already as well. Like, that's the thing, you got to be prepared to own your own mistakes in this process and, and be real about it right, like just just own it and move forward.
Am Johal 30:51
Now, the TRC calls to action made some very specific demands around higher education and Indigenization and decolonization processes at the university, there are a lot of people that are working on this, some institutions have done some block hiring and other kinds of ways to kind of really push some of these things forward. And I'm wondering how you're thinking about this with different colleagues at SFU, to make SFU a more welcoming place for Indigenous people and researchers and students as well.
Joy Johnson 31:24
Yeah. So we had, in response to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, SFU, a number of years ago, put together an Aboriginal Reconciliation Council, and they came up with 34 recommendations for our university, calls to action for our university. And we made some progress. But I will say there's more work to be done. One of the things that concerns me at SFU is, I think we're quite fragmented in our efforts, you know, and I've been talking a little bit about what structures can we put in place to help move this work forward to make sure that we are successful, that we are tracking, that people are just kind of benefiting from supporting one another. Chris Lewis, who I mentioned earlier, who is the chair of our board and a counselor with the Squamish nation, posted a conversation with me with our Indigenous faculty, staff and students in December, about three or four weeks ago. And, you know, it was very clear in that discussion that they just don't have enough opportunity to come together as a community, and they need to find ways to be able to be supported, and that they really value that. Because we are, as you said, you know, we've got 37,000 students and you know, 1000 faculty, you know, we're a big organization. And we've got very few of them. And we need to A, find ways for them to connect. So that's kind of structurally, how do we do that, but then continue to build their numbers. And we do have some great hiring underway right now. And some of it is cluster based. But there's more we need to do. I have to say, there's great demand for Indigenous faculty right now. And so we got to also, you know, feed the pipeline, get more students to university and undergraduate school as well, so that we can make sure that they can move into the professoriate. And to that end, it's interesting, as part of my early conversations, I've been really privileged to sit down, for example, with some of the chiefs from our First Nations, for example, the chief of the Tsleil-Waututh nation talked to me very seriously about the need for young people in that community, just to have an opportunity to be on campus, to find out what it's like to be on the university, what's the university about? So we're beginning to have some conversations about ways we can support that. And one of our Indigenous faculty members, Michelle Pigeon, recently completed with colleagues a report on pathways for Indigenous students with great recommendations on the ways that we need to bring them to campus early, reach out to communities, and support them when they're with us. It really is a great blueprint. And I'm really looking forward to it. We've got a new provost on board, Katherine Devaron, who's going to take up and work with that report and figure out how we can move that work forward. So no shortage of work to be done. Absolutely. But I do think there's a bit of a blueprint there, and we just need to kind of keep moving it forward.
Am Johal 34:21
Joy, what are you most excited about now that you've been on for four or five months here? That's a lot of work you have on your plate. What are you most excited about in the near future here?
Joy Johnson 34:32
Well, you know, I think what I'm most excited about is the vaccination. I have to say, I mean, I think we're all just holding on right now. And I am looking forward to the day where it will be safe for our faculty, staff and students to be back on campus where I can be with my family, you know, and travel and have all of that, you know, that's the thing I'm holding on to. And as a university president, you know, I think that you know, you do want to be in touch with your community. And it's hard to do this virtually, right? Like, it's hard to get a sense of where people are at. You just, you can't lay eyes on them, you can see them virtually. And that's great. We've figured out some great ways to do that. But I'm really looking forward to the day that I can walk across our campuses and just have casual conversations with people and not have to set it up on Zoom. And yeah, I think that will make a huge difference for me. And I'm missing, you know, part of being a president is also hosting great events. And we're doing some of that virtually, but it's not the same. I think we all know that. It's just not the same. So I'm looking forward to that.
Am Johal 35:40
Yeah, Joy. I'm so happy to be associated with the institution with you as president and feel like things are in very good hands. And thank you so much for joining us on Below the Radar for episode 100.
Joy Johnson 35:55
Yeah, it's been my pleasure. Am, thank you for your work. I just really have enjoyed working with you over the years. So looking forward to seeing and hearing about episode 200.
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Paige Smith 36:06
Below the Radar is a knowledge democracy podcast created by SFU's Vancity Office of Community Engagement. Thanks for listening to our conversation with SFU President Joy Johnson. You can learn more about her and the SFU initiatives she describes in the episode in our show notes. Thanks again for listening and staying with us till our 100th episode. We'll see you next time on Below the Radar.
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